Could someone please explain the logic behind the start lists that have just been released for the Scottish 6 Days?
The start times allocated to some runners seem fair, yet the allocation for others seem completely out of proportion and lacking in consistency; some competitors don't have a single start before 11.30, whilst others don't have a start time after 12.15. Courses are obviously going to be affected by bracken and tracking up, so it seems quite an oversight that some competitors are now effectively out of the races already.
Scottish Start Lists
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Re: Scottish Start Lists
WillG wrote:Could someone please explain the logic behind the start lists that have just been released for the Scottish 6 Days?
I'm not involved, but as I understand it, there are six 40-minute start blocks, and everyone gets one start time in each of those blocks. Some (helpers; parents) get punching starts (PS).
In Elite the day 6 start is a chase, so that's not one of the six allocated times. And day 3 is a WRE, so that will be allocated based on WRE rules. Which means in Elite you'll only get given pre-allocated starts for four of the six days (and if you're unlucky, you'll get blocks 1, 2, 3, 4, while someone else might get lucky with blocks 3, 4, 5, 6).
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Spookster - god
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Re: Scottish Start Lists
Thanks, that does explain a lot!
It does still seem off that this is the case; if it is known that some people will simply be unlucky, it doesn't really seem like a fair system. Is it not a good idea to change the block system for the elite? It does take away from the racing slightly if you already feel like you're at a disadvantage.
It does still seem off that this is the case; if it is known that some people will simply be unlucky, it doesn't really seem like a fair system. Is it not a good idea to change the block system for the elite? It does take away from the racing slightly if you already feel like you're at a disadvantage.
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Re: Scottish Start Lists
Having come out of this quite well, I think the elite start times are a joke
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mharky - team nopesport
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Re: Scottish Start Lists
Well they are changing it to 4 blocks now.
I'm still unconvinced by punching starts on the elite courses though.
I'm still unconvinced by punching starts on the elite courses though.
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mharky - team nopesport
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Re: Scottish Start Lists
Well I do need to get a bit tougher in terrain Barbie, what better chance ey?
- WillG
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Re: Scottish Start Lists
mharky wrote:Well they are changing it to 4 blocks now.
I'm still unconvinced by punching starts on the elite courses though.
Punching starts needed for 1 - parents and 2 - helpers on the day. They don't need to take the punching start if i tis not needed but it makes things easier if it is available.
- Big Jon
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Re: Scottish Start Lists
When I tried looking for start times using the "search" facility" it only came up with what course they are running and not their start time. Is there anyone out there that can fix this else it will take me a while to get all the various start times of folk I'm interested in. Thanks
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Re: Scottish Start Lists
The starts are not balanced on other courses also. Two people on W60 and 3 on M60 have 5 starts after 12.00.
- batty
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Re: Scottish Start Lists
batty wrote:The starts are not balanced on other courses also. Two people on W60 and 3 on M60 have 5 starts after 12.00.
The 6-Days is a holiday event and as such the organisers try to accommodate reasonable requests for differing start times. As such all classes will have some competitors who receive different start times from the normal allocation.
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Re: Scottish Start Lists
Big Jon wrote:Punching starts needed for 1 - parents and 2 - helpers on the day. They don't need to take the punching start if i tis not needed but it makes things easier if it is available.
I do not accept that the vast majority of helpers on the day need punching starts. This doesn't happen at BOC or JK, so why does it happen the the 6-days? Help early and run block 6, or run block 1 and help late. It's not that complicated. There will still be some core helpers who don't fit into this, and maybe someone won't get relieved from their shift on time, so I'm not saying abolish punching starts. But a lot of the helpers wouldn't need to have punching starts, and having it as the norm rather than the exception opens up the system to abuse.
What would you say to someone who only helped on one day and doesn't have kids, and yet still managed to take the following start times:
Day 1: 12:57
Day 2: 12:50:34
Day 3: 12:27
Day 4: 12:57:29
Day 5: 12:59
Day 6: 13:09:30
All you need to do is turn up to the start whenever you want and say you were helping, and they will let you go, there is no control of this, and blatant abuse. At worst this is cheating, at best it is highly immoral, and truly quite sad.
It may be a holiday event, but it's also a ranking event, and has been used for selections in the past.
P.S. For the keyboard warriors out there, I'm helping on every day.
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mharky - team nopesport
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Re: Scottish Start Lists
mharky wrote:I do not accept that the vast majority of helpers on the day need punching starts. This doesn't happen at BOC or JK, so why does it happen the the 6-days? ....
I agree. For most helpers it should be pretty simple. When I helped at a JK a couple of years ago I did have a punching start, which felt unnecessary given all the planning ahead of who was helping when.
I know there are always people out there who will exploit any opportunity/loop hole, but you have to wonder why. I'm going to be travelling a long long way to get to the S6D and to orienteer in some superb terrain (hopefully! never been to Deeside...). After going all that way, starting later for more elephant tracks and less orienteering is exactly what I don't want!
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Crex - white
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Re: Scottish Start Lists
.. on reflection perhaps it's not so much elephant tracks (though these are a huge help round here!) as people getting a sneaky look at the map before they run. Either way it's pointless
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Crex - white
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Re: Scottish Start Lists
Forest Gump wrote:When I tried looking for start times using the "search" facility" it only came up with what course they are running and not their start time. Is there anyone out there that can fix this else it will take me a while to get all the various start times of folk I'm interested in. Thanks
It wasn't an option, but thanks to Mark H, times are now there when you do a search.
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