Totally agree with Big-Jon. Without a properly supported National Team the sport will simply die out in the U.K. Without the support our best athletes will be tempted to compete in other similar sports ,where there is money to pay their costs, where they can achieve international success....we're already starting to see this shift.
In comparison to the U.K the sport of orienteering is booming here in Sweden. It's suddenly cool to go orienteering again - and I mean tough running in the forest. I was at a race on last Tuesday morning (our National day) there were around 800 kids under 16. My club IFK Göteborg often has over 100 kids at its club trainings during the week. Last week at my son's club in Lerum (a small town on the edge of Gothenburg they had over 60 kids at the evening training.) Part of the reason for this is that over quite a few years now the Swedes have got a very well organised and supported National team, which has really improved at getting media attention for its best athletes. The average sports interested man on the street knows who Tove Alexandersson is. Success breeds success.
GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
£1 from every Scottish 6-days individual day entry would pretty much cover WOC over a 2 year cycle.
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mharky - team nopesport
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
Adding on to what Dids said, look at the publicity Kris Jones is now getting:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/wales/40176439
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/wales/40176439
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mharky - team nopesport
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
The same article is the current lead article on BBC's athletics page.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics
Now down to number 2.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/athletics
Now down to number 2.
- maprun
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
Mark - fantastic article. So important to get the elite side of the sport out in the media, benefits orienteering at all levels and ages in the long run. Great job Kris Jones and BBC.
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
Athletes shouldn't be asked to foot the whole bill for their representations. If British Orienteering want to send athletes to such internationals which forms part of their P3 masterplan then they should be properly buying into it.
Whether it's pennies added to the levy or increase in membership fees it needs to be done. Clearly SE & SC & UK funding are dwindling so we need to take that responsibility in-house.
I'd be happy to be a stay-at-home TM and sort out next year's JWOC travel for you guys - I think Chris Poole and I did a great job on dwindling resources "back in the day" but there'll be no posh accommodation with me, matey, as long as there's a mattress on the floor and somewhere to pee/poo/drink/cook (maybe not all the same receptacle) - what matters is that athletes get to race and get as many experiences as possible - and then later on they can reflect on the hovels they had to sleep in Anyone remember Hungary JWOC? Belgium JWOC - one great big sports hall to sleep hundreds of us in? Trips to Danish Spring slumming on the school room floor. "Them were t'days".
Good luck to the team and staff at JWOC 2017 and all our young and old athletes racing all over Europe this summer. May your experiences last a lifetime.
Whether it's pennies added to the levy or increase in membership fees it needs to be done. Clearly SE & SC & UK funding are dwindling so we need to take that responsibility in-house.
I'd be happy to be a stay-at-home TM and sort out next year's JWOC travel for you guys - I think Chris Poole and I did a great job on dwindling resources "back in the day" but there'll be no posh accommodation with me, matey, as long as there's a mattress on the floor and somewhere to pee/poo/drink/cook (maybe not all the same receptacle) - what matters is that athletes get to race and get as many experiences as possible - and then later on they can reflect on the hovels they had to sleep in Anyone remember Hungary JWOC? Belgium JWOC - one great big sports hall to sleep hundreds of us in? Trips to Danish Spring slumming on the school room floor. "Them were t'days".
Good luck to the team and staff at JWOC 2017 and all our young and old athletes racing all over Europe this summer. May your experiences last a lifetime.
From small acorns great Oak trees grow.
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Lard - diehard
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
Lard wrote:May your experiences last a lifetime.
Some of my races as a junior felt like they lasted a lifetime...
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
So what is the gap between the funds that we do have the the money required to fund the senior / junior teams to represent the UK during the course of the year. How is this going to change over the next 2 - 3 years?
It would be interesting to know what proportion of people / clubs would support this. I don't know how well known it is how much our athletes have to contribute. I don't know if some of the squad members could share the amount of personal contribution over the last few years and if/how it is changing. Our elite athletes are already giving up a lot in order to pursue their ambitions, it doesn't seem fair that they should have to fund it as well.
It would be interesting to know what proportion of people / clubs would support this. I don't know how well known it is how much our athletes have to contribute. I don't know if some of the squad members could share the amount of personal contribution over the last few years and if/how it is changing. Our elite athletes are already giving up a lot in order to pursue their ambitions, it doesn't seem fair that they should have to fund it as well.
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
There is also the Chief Executive's salary of £47,000 (from the audited accounts, assuming all other directors are unpaid).
Could we really not find a retired orienteer who is willing to do this job for say £30,000 and re-invest the remaining £17,000 in elite orienteering?
We might also get someone who is really passionate about orienteering rather than an accountant / administrator.
FYI it is the board's responsibility to hire / manage / fire the chief executive.
Could we really not find a retired orienteer who is willing to do this job for say £30,000 and re-invest the remaining £17,000 in elite orienteering?
We might also get someone who is really passionate about orienteering rather than an accountant / administrator.
FYI it is the board's responsibility to hire / manage / fire the chief executive.
- Arnold
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
Arnold wrote:There is also the Chief Executive's salary of £47,000 (from the audited accounts, assuming all other directors are unpaid).
Could we really not find a retired orienteer who is willing to do this job for say £30,000 and re-invest the remaining £17,000 in elite orienteering?
We might also get someone who is really passionate about orienteering rather than an accountant / administrator.
FYI it is the board's responsibility to hire / manage / fire the chief executive.
Seems a reasonable rate for the job of Chief Executive to me and, no I am not interested at £30,000 pa thanks!
Come on Arnold, Mike is much more than 'an accountant/administrator' and seems pretty passionate about doing the job well.
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DaveK - green
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
If Mike Hamilton was at all interested in elite orienteering he would have employed orienteers as performance directors, not Sport England yes people that don't understand the sport at all. That don't understand the value in using all the available places at junior internationals; that don't understabd that orienteering is a thinking sport as well as a running sport and that competing every race at jwoc can be a good thing; that don't understand that a team preparing for a home woc might (instead of the sports science offered) appreciate at least one training camp on that home turf in the six months running up to woc, preferably more than one! Maybe Mike does do some things that are good. Maybe I am being unfair, but some of the decisions he has had a hand in have been horrific for elite orienteering.
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
DaveK wrote:Arnold wrote:We might also get someone who is really passionate about orienteering rather than an accountant / administrator.
Come on Arnold, Mike is much more than 'an accountant/administrator' and seems pretty passionate about doing the job well.
Mike was Performance Director at British Hockey before taking over at BO. He certainly seems passionate and knowledgeable about sports admin and coaching and I've always enjoyed talking to him. However, I do think Mike and other staff members struggle at times to understand orienteering and orienteers in particular when trying to apply generic sports management principles or ideas from other sports.
As well as greater knowledge and insight you're also going to get a lot more hours from passionate orienteers working as staff members as their work will inevitably overlap with their leisure time.
I wouldn't disrespect admin, accounting, and management skills, but if you can find an orienteer who ticks the boxes and has specific knowledge and passion surely its the way to go.
In the past funding bodies like Sport England seem to have been suspicious of volunteer run organisations and encouraged the introduction of professional sports administrators and service providers, but now the funds have all but disappeared it would seem appropriate to return to more cost effective and arguably more productive use of resources from within the sport, and as Arnold says perhaps free up some cash for the Performance programme at the same time.
And what Housewife says as well
To oblivion and beyond....
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buzz - addict
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
Mike is a good sports administrator who knows his way round the sports funding infrastructure. It was essential to hire someone like that when there was loads of lottery money available to minority sports with competent administration. Now there isn't so much money, it's hard for anyone to generate £47k+overheads worth of value for the sport. Our funding crisis isn't Mike fault, but he may become its victim.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
[edit 14/6 11am: added regional associations alongside clubs as help to athletes]
Thanks to many contributions to this thread so far. Thanks to all here and the wider community for a tremendous response to the appeal.
As orienteers we naturally look to optimize, so when discussing funding the first thing orienteers want is to know the costs, so they can think what opportunity there is to optimize by reducing them. It is like picking the best route.
And then we debate the merits of different uses of money: e.g. hardcopy communication vs staff vs reducing membership fees vs lower athlete contributions to JWOC. It is like running the route as quickly as possible.
Both are useful, but have their limits. The former because the costs are still too big for unsupported young people, especially undergraduates or those working part-time (or less) so they can train and recover in the best way. So some athletes may be priced out. The latter because, to quote Scott from 2015
See http://forum.nopesport.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14685#p167203
So thinking now longer term, we might also here share thoughts on something else.
To pick a fraction of one post from Lard (who, amongst other roles, was a leader on the JWOC 2010 team which included 4 of the 6 current performance squad men):
See http://forum.nopesport.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14973&start=30#p171715
So consider this is not a straight cross-country course but instead it's a score course. There are many 10 point controls that you will likely get if you focus on them and the result will be OK. There is also one 100 point control some way away in an intricate contour area. The 10 point controls are optimising costs and getting an OK share of the budget. The 100 point one is making worthwhile progress on "Raising awareness of members, the media and partners about the squads, teams, athletes and talent and performance programme" and using that for marketing.
Find this 100 points and more of the membership take an interest in the GB vests.
And that develops the sport, more people go to events.
So there is more money. So more unrestricted funds, or more clubs/associations, can support the team.
****
British Orienteering GB Team Page at https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/gbteams
The team page linked to the appeal (also good articles): http://gbteamwoc2017.blogspot.co.uk/p/b ... -2017.html
Another intro to GB WOC Team is at http://slow.org.uk/about/gb-woc-team-2017/
Thanks to many contributions to this thread so far. Thanks to all here and the wider community for a tremendous response to the appeal.
As orienteers we naturally look to optimize, so when discussing funding the first thing orienteers want is to know the costs, so they can think what opportunity there is to optimize by reducing them. It is like picking the best route.
And then we debate the merits of different uses of money: e.g. hardcopy communication vs staff vs reducing membership fees vs lower athlete contributions to JWOC. It is like running the route as quickly as possible.
Both are useful, but have their limits. The former because the costs are still too big for unsupported young people, especially undergraduates or those working part-time (or less) so they can train and recover in the best way. So some athletes may be priced out. The latter because, to quote Scott from 2015
See http://forum.nopesport.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14685#p167203
There is also a proportion of the membership, including some regional association committees, who are strongly opposed to any funding at all for adult elite/international orienteering ("performance", in sports council speak). I have no idea which proportion of the membership is greater, and short of someone bringing a sensibly worded AGM motion I don't expect we'll ever find out.
So thinking now longer term, we might also here share thoughts on something else.
To pick a fraction of one post from Lard (who, amongst other roles, was a leader on the JWOC 2010 team which included 4 of the 6 current performance squad men):
See http://forum.nopesport.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14973&start=30#p171715
You don't actively promote a sport without using elite athletes. Without elite performers you have no marketable sport. (It's reduced to being called a hobby/pastime, like fishing, darts, knitting).
So consider this is not a straight cross-country course but instead it's a score course. There are many 10 point controls that you will likely get if you focus on them and the result will be OK. There is also one 100 point control some way away in an intricate contour area. The 10 point controls are optimising costs and getting an OK share of the budget. The 100 point one is making worthwhile progress on "Raising awareness of members, the media and partners about the squads, teams, athletes and talent and performance programme" and using that for marketing.
Find this 100 points and more of the membership take an interest in the GB vests.
And that develops the sport, more people go to events.
So there is more money. So more unrestricted funds, or more clubs/associations, can support the team.
****
British Orienteering GB Team Page at https://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/gbteams
The team page linked to the appeal (also good articles): http://gbteamwoc2017.blogspot.co.uk/p/b ... -2017.html
Another intro to GB WOC Team is at http://slow.org.uk/about/gb-woc-team-2017/
Last edited by afterthought on Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GB WOC Team Funding Appeal
[quote]There is also a proportion of the membership, including some regional association committees, who are strongly opposed to any funding at all for adult elite/international orienteering ("performance", in sports council speak). I have no idea which proportion of the membership is greater, and short of someone bringing a sensibly worded AGM motion I don't expect we'll ever find out.
/quote]
I am unsure how other regional associations support athletes, but I wanted to assure you SWOA takes it's responsibility to supporting athletes very seriously and has over the past 10 months awarded grants of £4277. These include WTOC, JWOC, JEC, SHI, WSOC, Training Camps etc. I would hope other associations are doing the same. Any SW athlete can contact the SWOA Treasurer via SWOA webpage for a grant application form.
/quote]
I am unsure how other regional associations support athletes, but I wanted to assure you SWOA takes it's responsibility to supporting athletes very seriously and has over the past 10 months awarded grants of £4277. These include WTOC, JWOC, JEC, SHI, WSOC, Training Camps etc. I would hope other associations are doing the same. Any SW athlete can contact the SWOA Treasurer via SWOA webpage for a grant application form.
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