I see it's now on the BOF website (under event officials) that you MUST do an event safety course to be a grade C controller. Does that mean people who did the controller course yonks ago but have never done an event safety one are no longer controllers?
The event safety course is listed under the organiser bumf but it doesn't say organisers MUST do it just that the course exists.
Planners seem to be exempt.
Any other interpretations of this?
Who "must" have done an Event Safety Course?
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Re: Who "must" have done an Event Safety Course?
Who should do it? "Everyone" would be the answer
Alot of weight lays with the Controller, therefore must have completed it. Hidden away from the glory, they partially check the Organisers work (land access/parking etc), and the Planners work. Some events i have been at, the Planner & Controller have signed the Risk Assessment. The Organiser will not go into the terrain whilst the others certainly will, the Controller may be the last one to return before giving the "thumbs up" to start.
Alot of weight lays with the Controller, therefore must have completed it. Hidden away from the glory, they partially check the Organisers work (land access/parking etc), and the Planners work. Some events i have been at, the Planner & Controller have signed the Risk Assessment. The Organiser will not go into the terrain whilst the others certainly will, the Controller may be the last one to return before giving the "thumbs up" to start.
- Mr D
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Re: Who "must" have done an Event Safety Course?
I thought there might be a "grandfather's clause" for people who have been controlling for years but not done the Event safety course.
- frog
Re: Who "must" have done an Event Safety Course?
I think this has been discussed before.
Appendix C 1.2 and 1.3 of the rules now indicate that all planners and organisers, even for Level D events, must "have completed safety training prescribed within the British Orienteering Event Safety and Welfare Workshop". My reading is that doesn't strictly mean they actually have to have attended such a workshop - if they can demonstrate that they have completed the prescribed training in some other way - but clearly such attendance is the simplest solution.
For Controllers, 1.4.2 appears to say something similar, but since this clause is under the heading "Appointment to the Role of Controller" (i.e. to a controller level rather than to an event) it is unclear whether it means existing controllers who have not attended a workshop are now effectively sacked. It is reasonable to require new appointees at level C to have attended the workshop. But there is an argument that n years of controlling experience, which at least for level A and B controllers will be across multiple clubs and Associations with resulting cross-fertilisation of best ideas and practice, could or should be deemed sufficient to "have completed safety training ...". In addition existing controllers have already been responsible for ensuring compliance with Appendix E (Event Safety), which in itself is far more comprehensive than the workshop!
However a more strict interpretation is certainly being taken by some Associations - and the lack of any Association representation of BO level committees means that it is now difficult to ensure consistent practice across the country. I know of some controllers who are no longer being appointed to events, and of a controller of some 30 years standing with immense organising and planning experience who has been removed from an event this year, simply because they not have attended a workshop. The view of the controllers in question is that if they are no longer wanted it is the sport's loss rather than theirs. We are very good at shooting ourselves in the foot.
Appendix C 1.2 and 1.3 of the rules now indicate that all planners and organisers, even for Level D events, must "have completed safety training prescribed within the British Orienteering Event Safety and Welfare Workshop". My reading is that doesn't strictly mean they actually have to have attended such a workshop - if they can demonstrate that they have completed the prescribed training in some other way - but clearly such attendance is the simplest solution.
For Controllers, 1.4.2 appears to say something similar, but since this clause is under the heading "Appointment to the Role of Controller" (i.e. to a controller level rather than to an event) it is unclear whether it means existing controllers who have not attended a workshop are now effectively sacked. It is reasonable to require new appointees at level C to have attended the workshop. But there is an argument that n years of controlling experience, which at least for level A and B controllers will be across multiple clubs and Associations with resulting cross-fertilisation of best ideas and practice, could or should be deemed sufficient to "have completed safety training ...". In addition existing controllers have already been responsible for ensuring compliance with Appendix E (Event Safety), which in itself is far more comprehensive than the workshop!
However a more strict interpretation is certainly being taken by some Associations - and the lack of any Association representation of BO level committees means that it is now difficult to ensure consistent practice across the country. I know of some controllers who are no longer being appointed to events, and of a controller of some 30 years standing with immense organising and planning experience who has been removed from an event this year, simply because they not have attended a workshop. The view of the controllers in question is that if they are no longer wanted it is the sport's loss rather than theirs. We are very good at shooting ourselves in the foot.
- Snail
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Re: Who "must" have done an Event Safety Course?
With so many different interpretations and views, BOF need to be clear what is the minimum required, not the belt braces, but the bare minimum. The points Snail makes, suggest many controllers could easily conduct the workshops themselves, with a host of personal experiences.
- maprun
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Re: Who "must" have done an Event Safety Course?
maprun wrote:With so many different interpretations and views, BOF need to be clear what is the minimum required, not the belt braces, but the bare minimum. The points Snail makes, suggest many controllers could easily conduct the workshops themselves, with a host of personal experiences.
Personal experience won't cut much ice with a bureaucracy - it will demand a piece of paper...
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Re: Who "must" have done an Event Safety Course?
Snail wrote:I know of some controllers who ... has been removed from an event this year, simply because they not have attended a workshop.
If only we had enough controllers to do things like that
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Re: Who "must" have done an Event Safety Course?
The requirement for controllers to have attended an event safety workshop has been there for a long time - since the workshops were first introduced. Or rather there was a requirement for the risk assessment to be reviewed by someone who had attended. This was usually the controller (for those events that had a controller), but it could have been a qualified coach for example.
IMO this was a reasonable requirement of the insurers. If is fine to have novice planner or organisers so long as there is some oversight from a more qualified official. This shouldn't be a problem. Controllers are (or should be) drawn from our most committed members so managing to get them to a half day workshop at some point over the last few years should not have been a big problem; as far as I know I think all our club's active controllers have attended workshops - as have regular planners and organisers.
The real issue is that it will now become very difficult to recruit new planners and organisers now that they need to attend a workshop before they plan or organise their first event. The one work-around that is still possible is that for level D events only one event official is needed - the organiser. This official responsible for safe running of the event so must have attended a workshop, but they could delegate certain aspects of the job (say to course setting volunteer, or assembly set-up coordinator) in the same way they might delegate a start team leader at a larger event.
IMO this was a reasonable requirement of the insurers. If is fine to have novice planner or organisers so long as there is some oversight from a more qualified official. This shouldn't be a problem. Controllers are (or should be) drawn from our most committed members so managing to get them to a half day workshop at some point over the last few years should not have been a big problem; as far as I know I think all our club's active controllers have attended workshops - as have regular planners and organisers.
The real issue is that it will now become very difficult to recruit new planners and organisers now that they need to attend a workshop before they plan or organise their first event. The one work-around that is still possible is that for level D events only one event official is needed - the organiser. This official responsible for safe running of the event so must have attended a workshop, but they could delegate certain aspects of the job (say to course setting volunteer, or assembly set-up coordinator) in the same way they might delegate a start team leader at a larger event.
- pete.owens
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Re: Who "must" have done an Event Safety Course?
Well as a Grade A controller I knew nothing about this.... lack of obvious communication somewhere!!!
So where is the list of workshops published?
So where is the list of workshops published?
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Re: Who "must" have done an Event Safety Course?
Gross wrote:Well as a Grade A controller I knew nothing about this.... lack of obvious communication somewhere!!!
If you're back in Scotland: we're working on this.
Gross wrote:So where is the list of workshops published?
http://www.scottish-orienteering.org/natcen/page/national-centre-course-schedule
Most courses are delivered by tutors within clubs:
http://www.scottish-orienteering.org/soa/page/event-safety-tutors
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Re: Who "must" have done an Event Safety Course?
Gross wrote:So where is the list of workshops published?
And the ones you currently hold are shown on the BO database once you've logged in:
Martin Ward, SYO (Chair) & SPOOK.
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Spookster - god
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Re: Who "must" have done an Event Safety Course?
That posting's graphic content went out of date very quickly!
If you logon then under Get Involved / Coaching / Training Courses you can see the old training course search dialogue ... that still contains no Organiser Workshops, Safety Workshops or indeed anything except coaching / teaching O.
I suspect most safety ones are done through the clubs and hence will only be publicised to local clubs if they have spaces. I have no idea where/if the Organiser ones will appear though.
Cheers
JK
If you logon then under Get Involved / Coaching / Training Courses you can see the old training course search dialogue ... that still contains no Organiser Workshops, Safety Workshops or indeed anything except coaching / teaching O.
I suspect most safety ones are done through the clubs and hence will only be publicised to local clubs if they have spaces. I have no idea where/if the Organiser ones will appear though.
Cheers
JK
JK
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