Interesting to notice the geographical spread of the new talent squad - only three athletes are based south of Yorkshire. Big-up! to Maroc and WCOC who seem to be producing the majority.
Congratulations to all selected.
To those who haven't been selected or are now on the "Watch List" - Keep at it, work hard, shout for support in your locality....... and you shall get it.
Your best years are yet to come.
Talent Squad 16/17
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Talent Squad 16/17
From small acorns great Oak trees grow.
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Lard - diehard
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
yes, well done to all those selected - well deserved.
also interesting to read the detail in the 'selection overview', after JWOC this year - it is now policy that athletes may not be allowed to run a 'B' final, and that relay teams will be preselected ..............
How do the athletes feel about this, and is anyone consulted before the policy is published?
also interesting to read the detail in the 'selection overview', after JWOC this year - it is now policy that athletes may not be allowed to run a 'B' final, and that relay teams will be preselected ..............
How do the athletes feel about this, and is anyone consulted before the policy is published?
- jayelc
- off string
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
I find it very odd that athletes are being denied valuable race experience at JWOC despite forking out hundreds of pounds to attend and despite a distinct lack of international racing opportunities for our Brits compared to other European nations.
I could only envisage someone not running a B final if they had serious potential to podium at the sprint the following day.
And pre-selecting a relay team? Makes sense for seniors but not juniors. Pre-selection would be based on previous performance and mainly on UK selection races - there's nothing like racing in 3 Tampere forests in the run up to the relay to determine who can hack that terrain, who has resilience and fighting spirit.
I thought we were meant to be producing adaptable, fit, well rounded technical orienteers from the talent programme. Seems to me we'll be producing primadonnas who withdraw from races at the slightest hint of not being on top form. We've seen how this attitude in some can really damage a senior team's hopes and expectations.
I could only envisage someone not running a B final if they had serious potential to podium at the sprint the following day.
And pre-selecting a relay team? Makes sense for seniors but not juniors. Pre-selection would be based on previous performance and mainly on UK selection races - there's nothing like racing in 3 Tampere forests in the run up to the relay to determine who can hack that terrain, who has resilience and fighting spirit.
I thought we were meant to be producing adaptable, fit, well rounded technical orienteers from the talent programme. Seems to me we'll be producing primadonnas who withdraw from races at the slightest hint of not being on top form. We've seen how this attitude in some can really damage a senior team's hopes and expectations.
From small acorns great Oak trees grow.
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Lard - diehard
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
jayelc wrote:also interesting to read the detail in the 'selection overview', after JWOC this year - it is now policy that athletes may not be allowed to run a 'B' final, and that relay teams will be preselected ..............
How do the athletes feel about this, and is anyone consulted before the policy is published?
Allow me to clarify.... Regarding B finals, as the policy states, there will be a conversation between the athlete and the management team as to whether the athlete feels that it is in their best interests to run in this or not (assuming they don't make the A final, which of course they will ). It will depend primarily on factors, as Lard alludes to, as to whether they feel that this will impact on their performance in the races to follow. Related specifically to the programme in Finland, it will focus on whether this will impact on their ability to produce a top performance in the sprint the following day. It may indeed be that the athlete will benefit from further experience by running in a B final and this is definitely not being excluded as a possibility. The focus of this discussion would vary from year to year, as each JWOC programme has a different structure and requires careful thought.
Regarding the relay, please read the policy fully: "Athletes will be selected to relay teams at the time of selection with any changes at the discretion of the Performance Manager or a delegated person. Selection criteria will include all disciplines and selected teams may include athletes not selected to compete in the individual disciplines at a competition. Changes to relay teams may take place prior to a competition or at a competition.". As per previous year's, the plan is to pre-select teams, to allow runners to prepare for the particular challenges they face on their respective legs, but, unlike last year, this will be open to change if an athlete has a loss of form, or becomes injured, or another athlete has an outstanding week of performances at Tampere and merits promotion from the B to the A team. There will be ongoing appraisal during JWOC to see whether the initial selections require change or not and there will be a flexible approach taken by the management team.
To answer your question re consultation, this policy has been through many stages of discussion over the past few months, including involving the Performance Steering Group in formal debate, the Performance team discussing it themselves at their annual review meeting and reflecting on lessons learned from previous approaches, athlete feedback collated at the end of each season and other interested party's opinions (such as coaches) also being taken onboard. Personally, I even reflect on Nopesport debate, which is dangerous, admittedly
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Strider - light green
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
"Athletes will be selected to relay teams at the time of selection with any changes at the discretion of the Performance Manager or a delegated person. ......... Changes to relay teams may take place prior to a competition or at a competition.".
The plan is to pre-select teams, to allow runners to prepare for the particular challenges they face on their respective legs, but, unlike last year, this will be open to change.
So you are going to pre-select teams but then potentially change them. To my mind this is the worst possible option as any changes are bound to cause disruption immediately prior to the event. As said in an earlier posting, given that pre-selection would be based on previous performance and mainly on UK selection races it is not a great indicator of performance during the JWOC week itself. Surely it is better for all the athletes to not have any pre-selection for the relay teams.
- SJC
- diehard
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
Please tell me there is some misunderstanding in what I read about relay selection. You might pick someone for the relay that is not running the individual races at all??? Taking up one of the 6 jwoc places for someone that will skip all individual races? Is that what you are saying???
- housewife
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
housewife wrote:Please tell me there is some misunderstanding in what I read about relay selection. You might pick someone for the relay that is not running the individual races at all??? Taking up one of the 6 jwoc places for someone that will skip all individual races? Is that what you are saying???
No, that is a misunderstanding...the 4 relay teams at JWOC will be made up from the 12 selected athletes running the individual races.
Last edited by Strider on Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Strider - light green
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
"Selection criteria will include all disciplines and selected teams may include athletes not selected to compete in the individual disciplines at a competition".
Exactly how does this not say (given that we are in normal parlance rather than BOspeak) exactly what housewife thought it said?
Exactly how does this not say (given that we are in normal parlance rather than BOspeak) exactly what housewife thought it said?
- mykind
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
mykind wrote:"Selection criteria will include all disciplines and selected teams may include athletes not selected to compete in the individual disciplines at a competition".
Exactly how does this not say (given that we are in normal parlance rather than BOspeak) exactly what housewife thought it said?
It says that, in order to cover all bases for both senior and junior competitions, but for JWOC this is extremely unlikely to ever be applied. It may be the case for the seniors that runners are selected to compete in the mixed sprint or forest relays without running individual disciplines.
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Strider - light green
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
Well Strider it sounds to me like you have used the discussion tool that is Nopesport Forums to good effect by explain a number of issues and alleviating people's concerns. For this I highly commend you.
Back in the old days selection criteria was brief and woolly to ensure to ensure flexibility in team selection and avoid such a grilling from the general public. I can understand why BO would want to provide more detail and transparency, but with it comes further questions and clarification. To quote a famous writer, sometimes...."You say it best, when you say nothing at all"
I am relieved that actions and processes applied in previous seasons have been reviewed and your postings do give the impression that we are now looking like being back on track. (I'm not sure how we ended up off the rails.....too much investment in non-orienteering staff?)
I'll be doing my continued bit in the Scottish central belt to "enable" forest orienteers to get out technical training EVERY Wednesday......if you can please, please, please persuade your athletes to actually practice their sport more often than once a fortnight...
Back in the old days selection criteria was brief and woolly to ensure to ensure flexibility in team selection and avoid such a grilling from the general public. I can understand why BO would want to provide more detail and transparency, but with it comes further questions and clarification. To quote a famous writer, sometimes...."You say it best, when you say nothing at all"
I am relieved that actions and processes applied in previous seasons have been reviewed and your postings do give the impression that we are now looking like being back on track. (I'm not sure how we ended up off the rails.....too much investment in non-orienteering staff?)
I'll be doing my continued bit in the Scottish central belt to "enable" forest orienteers to get out technical training EVERY Wednesday......if you can please, please, please persuade your athletes to actually practice their sport more often than once a fortnight...
From small acorns great Oak trees grow.
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Lard - diehard
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
Strider wrote: It may be the case for the seniors that runners are selected to compete in the mixed sprint or forest relays without running individual disciplines.
Which already happened at WOC2015, without much controversy.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
Lard wrote:I'll be doing my continued bit in the Scottish central belt to "enable" forest orienteers to get out technical training EVERY Wednesday......if you can please, please, please persuade your athletes to actually practice their sport more often than once a fortnight...
Thanks for the comments - we are trying to improve lines of communication, working hard to get our message out there, and also listening to feedback from a whole host of people involved in the sport. To this end, I'm looking forward to going along to the JROS weekend at Hawkshead tomorrow and seeing the dedicated coaching team and all their athletes in action across the Lakeland forests and fells...
Doing more focussed and purposeful technical training is a message we're pushing and we're looking at building on our programme of technical camps by adding in 'open weekends' alongside JROS activities and, if more clubs like yourselves can add in opportunities for athletes to gain quality time in forests, then that is fantastic. It's no coincidence that clubs with an active training programme, (eg. MAROC & WCOC, which you mentioned at the outset of this thread), are seeing many of their juniors getting onto the talent radar...
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Strider - light green
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
Its not rocket science. The best orienteers in the world train 5 or 6 times a week in terrain on maps. Thierry (to quote one) trained approx 7 hours a week orienteering on average over the past few years (just under half his total training volume).
Training in terrain and maps once a week isn't enough - it should be 3 or 4 times a week by the age of 17 or 18. Too many interval sessions and too little technical training is the problem with GB O nowadays.
Training in terrain and maps once a week isn't enough - it should be 3 or 4 times a week by the age of 17 or 18. Too many interval sessions and too little technical training is the problem with GB O nowadays.
- Big Jon
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
Has Zac Hudd actually transferred from BOK to WCOC or is that a typo on the list?
- babs f
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Re: Talent Squad 16/17
Big Jon wrote:Training in terrain and maps once a week isn't enough - it should be 3 or 4 times a week by the age of 17 or 18. Too many interval sessions and too little technical training is the problem with GB O nowadays.
I'd keep the interval sessions, but I agree on the technique. 30% purposeful running with a map in terrain (forest or urban) should be the minimum for any aspirant international.
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buzz - addict
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