The recent board meeting seems to have agreed that the International programme should focus on podium places in sprint, sprint relay and forest relay only.
Anyone have any idea why?
Elite programme focus changed
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
The focus on relays might simply be the mathematics that there are fewer teams than individuals, so podiums are easier to achieve in relays.
Reading the minutes, worryingly when BD noted the recent decline in forest performances, no one asked JN for her opinion or analysis of why this was. It appears the Board, without any discussion or analysis on the perceived decline, decided the future emphasis should be on sprints and relays, and a careful explanation given to the membership of why this was. Sadly, if the reasons for the "decline" are not understood, I'm wondering how the Board will explain the real reason for their decision, except that's how the numbers fall, and they are directing their efforts accordingly.
Has anyone, any ideas why there might have be a decline in forest performances, or whether there has been?
Reading the minutes, worryingly when BD noted the recent decline in forest performances, no one asked JN for her opinion or analysis of why this was. It appears the Board, without any discussion or analysis on the perceived decline, decided the future emphasis should be on sprints and relays, and a careful explanation given to the membership of why this was. Sadly, if the reasons for the "decline" are not understood, I'm wondering how the Board will explain the real reason for their decision, except that's how the numbers fall, and they are directing their efforts accordingly.
Has anyone, any ideas why there might have be a decline in forest performances, or whether there has been?
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
... Our forest runners like GG,Ralph, Hector are probably as good as our previous top forest runners (with the exception of Jamie and Steve Hale), but the technical perfection needed nowadays to be up at the top is higher, the bar is higher and GB haven't kept up. Compare the gps lines in WOC middle and long with the best runners compared to our GB men and - you'll see their technical skill, and their ability to find good lines in the forest is not up at the level of the top lads and as a result they fall behind pretty quickly in the races. They're probably not as physically strong in that type of terrain either, other terrain types could well suit them better and they'd be closer to the top, but the level of technique perfection needed isn't quite there. I'm pretty sure if you gave Kris Jones some cash so he didn't have to work, shipped him off to Norway and Sweden for a few years to train with a good group of other elites, banned him from sprint orienteering and made him train forest orienteering everyday, he'd win us a forest medal.
Maybe its time there were two British teams - one for sprint racing, and totally seperate one for the tough guys running in the forest with Liz Campbell and a range of our former top runners as coaches/support.
Maybe its time there were two British teams - one for sprint racing, and totally seperate one for the tough guys running in the forest with Liz Campbell and a range of our former top runners as coaches/support.
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
Good point about following "lines" in the forest. TG emphasises it as an essential part of his technique. I tried it last time I was on sand dunes, and I was amazed how much quicker I was. The routes might appear longer, but they avoid micro deviations that probably add up to the same length of route. Add on the continuous flow and better underfoot conditions, and the technique beats running on a bearing over a course.
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
bewildered wrote:The recent board meeting seems to have agreed that the International programme should focus on podium places in sprint, sprint relay and forest relay only.
Anyone have any idea why?
That's not the way I interpret the minutes.
They say:
b) Strategy revisited:
...
Performance:
Conversion of podium places to medals in sprint, sprint relay and forest relay
...
BD suggested that JN had presented a somewhat optimistic picture of the overall team performance. Whilst there had certainly been some outstanding results from a few athletes the overall trend in results, especially in forest disciplines appeared to have declined. He also asked why the emphasis should be on sprint over forest orienteering and suggested that such a move would need to be explained carefully to the broader membership.
It was agreed that the programme should focus on delivering podium places rather than spreading resources more thinly on all types of races. The purpose of the programme was agreed to be to raise the profile of orienteering through achieving podium success – and there was understanding that this might more easily be achieved converting podium success in sprint, sprint relay and forest relay disciplines into medal success.
I interpret that as saying: "We're going to focus on turning our nearly medals into actual medals". This year those nearly-medals happened to come from sprint, sprint relay and forest relay, and in all three cases the athletes involved are young and aspirational so it is reasonable to think that with year-on-year improvements there are medals we can win. I doubt we will see wholesale changes to the focus or structure of the performance program geared towards these specific medal targets.
Personally, I think it's slightly short-sighted to think these are our only medal prospects - in 2014 & 2015 we had far more success in the forest than in sprint disciplines at WC, EOC and WOC level.
DIDSCO wrote:Maybe its time there were two British teams - one for sprint racing, and totally seperate one for the tough guys running in the forest with Liz Campbell and a range of our former top runners as coaches/support.
Dids, you basically describe how the squad has operated over the last couple of years. Any other top suggestions?
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rocky - [nope] cartel
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
It was agreed that the programme should focus on delivering podium places rather than spreading resources more thinly on all types of races.
That sounds like some types of races are not going to be focused upon, and probably means the individual forest races?
Rocky> I've got loads of ideas but I doubt you and many others want to hear them
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
rocky wrote:I interpret that as saying: "We're going to focus on turning our nearly medals into actual medals". This year those nearly-medals happened to come from sprint, sprint relay and forest relay,
Whereas last year our nearly medals all came in forest disciplines, so...
Still, it will be interesting to see if anything actually happens, given the tiny number of sprint-relay and relay-style head-to-head races available in the UK, and the fact you really can't train for them alone..
How I read it is "we're running out of cash - we need to cut half the programme".
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
graeme wrote:How I read it is "we're running out of cash - we need to cut half the programme".
Alternating forest and sprint WOCs can't come quicker enough!
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
Is it possible to focus on the forest relay but not other forest disciplines? I guess I'd never considered it as a standalone discipline you can focus on, but I suppose it does have quite distinctive characteristics.
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
In years gone by squad focus was on relays...
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
Arnold wrote: I guess I'd never considered it as a standalone discipline
From an elite course setting viewpoint, it's totally different from middle and long (which are pretty much the same). The major challenge you're trying to set for relay runners is coping with other people/flags in the forest, and then providing them opportunities for decisive breakaways. In the individual disciplines, it's more about breaking up the pace/style and trying to avoid packs forming.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
graeme wrote:From an elite course setting viewpoint, it's totally different from middle and long (which are pretty much the same). The major challenge you're trying to set for relay runners is coping with other people/flags in the forest, and then providing them opportunities for decisive breakaways. In the individual disciplines, it's more about breaking up the pace/style and trying to avoid packs forming.
Got to agree with this, we do well in forest relays because we have top runners who can get by in this setting. I know this is a bit of a generalisation but you just have to compare Thierry's attackpoint log to our top runners to see why we're behind in middle/long, he's always in terrain and always at the top of the results. Cat's good results recently come from a similar lifestyle to Thierry, it works!
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
Life will get tougher for the elite in a couple of years when a visa will be needed with no automatic ability to move to Sweden etc etc. Brexit
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
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Gross - god
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
Gross wrote:Life will get tougher for the elite in a couple of years when a visa will be needed with no automatic ability to move to Sweden etc etc. Brexit
Will the EU last that long?
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Re: Elite programme focus changed
will The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland last that long ?
If you could run forever ......
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