Well given my username I had to contribute to this one at some point.
I think mostly pressure to perform comes from within, even if maybe the thought comes from elsewhere. e.g. Becks - if you didn't give a stuff about doing well then you would've not been bothered by person x saying you were larger than most of your peers. I think Mrs H's drug analogy is the best one. I think the same goes for non-athletes with eating disorders - e.g. to be thin to be "attractive" (beauty is in the eye of the beholder?)- that's only pressure from within even if generated from outside.
As for orienteering, being a little larger helps from time to time. OK so I've got a bit of a belly but my best racing weight would probably be 85-90kg. Steep open moorland with short-cropped grass I get absolutely thrashed on but give me a flatish forest (Sweden next week?) and I have advantage in the undergrowth.
skinny runners
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I think girls do actually tend to get bigger than lads more easily. This is because of the percantage of water there is in our bodies - it differs over the two sexes making women more prone to becoming fatter. I don't know about adults so much, but if you look round a school more girls are big than lads.
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Just read this article again :
Physiologically, girls naturally carry more fat in their body due to breasts.
Muscle does not weight more than fat, it is denser, meaning a smaller fram can carry more weight.
Finally, although I made a flippant comment about my weight earlier on in this thread, it does actually concern me. The light-hearted comment was made to show that "normal" ( if that is right word for me ) actually worry about their weight. I'd like to think that as people grow up they realise that peer-pressure really does not exist - as in reality people generally criticise the failings/issues they have with themselves and projec these issues onto others.
After a quick poll with my friends, it is fairly obvious that too-skinny girls are unattractive. I wish that people who are too thin could understand that thin does not mean attractive.
Physiologically, girls naturally carry more fat in their body due to breasts.
Muscle does not weight more than fat, it is denser, meaning a smaller fram can carry more weight.
Finally, although I made a flippant comment about my weight earlier on in this thread, it does actually concern me. The light-hearted comment was made to show that "normal" ( if that is right word for me ) actually worry about their weight. I'd like to think that as people grow up they realise that peer-pressure really does not exist - as in reality people generally criticise the failings/issues they have with themselves and projec these issues onto others.
After a quick poll with my friends, it is fairly obvious that too-skinny girls are unattractive. I wish that people who are too thin could understand that thin does not mean attractive.
Now, I know you're a feminist, and I think that's adorable, but this is grown-up time and I'm the man.
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Braddie - light green
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i think the problem isnt being too skinny, but loosing sight of where too skinny actually is....i used to think i was overweight (loking back dont think i ever was) but now am happy with my weight / figure without losing anyweight.....although this has definetly moved on from where the original post was.....although wit female athletes, when not competing at an especially high level...for example, someone of my level, i find i have problems deciding whether to eat...eating would probably help me while running / cycling because i no i will run out of energy otherwise, but then at the same time im trying to think about my figure.....thinking that if i excersise without eating b4 hand i'll burn off more fat......even though i know this isnt the case.....or is it?
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Jene - addict
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a lot of girls, including myself and close friends, went through a stage of feeling really fat due to the change from a stick-like child to a slightly curvier teenager. The fact that many models have the figures most of us had as a 12 year old is suggesting that beautiful means to be thin.
I reckon that female athletes look at the people who are much better than them and think that they have to be the same shape to do as well and this might not be natural to their body - people come in different sizes and aren't supposed to be all the same
I reckon that female athletes look at the people who are much better than them and think that they have to be the same shape to do as well and this might not be natural to their body - people come in different sizes and aren't supposed to be all the same
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SJ - blue
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FatBoy wrote:I think mostly pressure to perform comes from within, even if maybe the thought comes from elsewhere. e.g. Becks - if you didn't give a stuff about doing well then you would've not been bothered by person x saying you were larger than most of your peers.
I'm sorry, having a coach highlight your weight loss as opposed to your victory in an important domestic race is external pressure. When you're in a squad situation and you're a young, impressionable teenager it's virtually impossible to stand up to someone who's bullying you about something like that if you want to stay respected and selected for the squad.
This is partly why I'm going into coaching.
Will? We've got proper fire now!
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Becks - god
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Becks wrote: having a coach highlight your weight loss as opposed to your victory in an important domestic race is external pressure
certainly is - in fact I'd say you only pressure yourself after external pressure - why else would you think of it? (unless your weight was causing health problems etc)
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SJ - blue
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Becks wrote:
I'm sorry, having a coach highlight your weight loss as opposed to your victory in an important domestic race is external pressure.
I hope I'm not alone by saying I'm finding that rather disturbing. like i said In my post at the bottom of page 3 (must speak to samsonite about pages - don't like them - posts get missed) I was expecting coaches to be guarding and warning against this as a short term strategy which will produce long term damage. now it seems some coaches are actually encouraging it - i wonder what Derek Allison has got to say about that?
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Mrs H. - nope godmother
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There is definite balance here that has to be met.
It is simple weight loss without power loss means a faster runner. However, it is interesting that a coach has taken it upon himself to tell a runner how heavy he or she should be without, it seems, any medical test.
Interesting that instead of being a doctor in the 15th century, some quacks sell loans, others sell pension schemes and finally a new niche - coaching.
P.s. this is not saying all coaches are quacks and I have great respect for the effort all of the local, regional and national coaches make on behalf of the sport. I am merely stating that a minority are possibly not coaching in a correct manner.
It is simple weight loss without power loss means a faster runner. However, it is interesting that a coach has taken it upon himself to tell a runner how heavy he or she should be without, it seems, any medical test.
Interesting that instead of being a doctor in the 15th century, some quacks sell loans, others sell pension schemes and finally a new niche - coaching.
P.s. this is not saying all coaches are quacks and I have great respect for the effort all of the local, regional and national coaches make on behalf of the sport. I am merely stating that a minority are possibly not coaching in a correct manner.
Now, I know you're a feminist, and I think that's adorable, but this is grown-up time and I'm the man.
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Braddie - light green
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Becks wrote:I'm sorry, having a coach highlight your weight loss as opposed to your victory in an important domestic race is external pressure. When you're in a squad situation and you're a young, impressionable teenager it's virtually impossible to stand up to someone who's bullying you about something like that if you want to stay respected and selected for the squad.
I agree 110% it's utterly wrong for a coach to do this.
My point is that it's only because of the pressure you put on yourself to win that you took his opinion (am guessing it was a bloke?). I'm not saying either that it was some sort of weakness you had. I'm sure I would've done the same if it'd happened to me, as would many if not all top juniors.
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FatBoy - addict
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lots of the girls that were in the junior squad when i was were told that they should lose some weight. surely it would have been better to tell them to train harder/more effectively. they'd probably have lost weight too but at least there wouldn't be a temptation to starve yourself. needless to say i never lost anyweight because i never tried too. i like food, it gives me energy
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Rach - red
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If squads have someone in charge of high performance then should they not look to ensure that athletes are not over or underweight - Personally I think sometimes people need to be told that they are too fat and need to loose some weight (maybe a bit more sensitively than that). However this needs to be balanced by the discussion about someone being too thin and needing to put on weight if this is necessary! I went for VO2 max and lactate threshold testing a few years ago and was told to lose a few pounds and given quite detailed info in relation to diet and nutrition. I appreciated this advice. However I would equally appreciate if someone were to tell me that I was getting too thin and needed to put on weight. but is anyone in GB squad qualified to do this? Is it a doctor's role, coach, manager....???? We can criticise a coach for saying someone needs to loose weight but maybe they did (not meaning to say that either Becks or Rachel did) If coaches only focus on the need to put on weight and never comment on someone needing to loose weight then surely the athletes will loose confidence in their advice because I am sure we can all identify a few athletes that are not running to their potential because they need to loose some weight! Sorry for being controversial but I think we can't always expect coaches to say put on weight and never say loose weight. That said I have obviously never been in GB squad so don't know the pressures juniors/seniors are under in either direction!
Toni
Toni
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Toni - light green
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From my knowledge of physiology, and not coaching, I'm going to re-state the obvious in an effort to point out complicating factors:
If you are training hard as an adult, you won't be carrying too much fat. But if you don't eat properly, you will lose weight which will eventually be detrimental to your health. A rule of thumb to follow is; to replenish muscle energy stores you need to eat carbs within 2 hrs of exercise, to boost muscle size you need to eat protein within two hours of exercise.
After this things get less straight forward:
In children, training and physiology aren't as intrinsically linked. Throughout puberty, hormones surge as one develops. Kids have growth spurts upwards and outwards until they find a working median which serves as their adult weight. Now it is highly likely that kids who train harder will have less fat (but not definite over a growth period), and over-training is potentially more detrimental in the young than in adults. The prime example is the former eastern block and asian athletes who overtrained as teenagers and are now on crutches. I guess the aim must be to train to whatever coaches see as an achieveable amount, eat accordingly and try not to worry too much. Strange things happen when your still growing. But be aware of the affect of under eating, an example of an individual incident of missing food is the Sutherlands girl in that test the family program (Respect is due to the b.t.w.). I'm in no way shape or form saying she has an eating problem, she seems extremly healthy and well balanced, but this is an indication of the importance of food.
In adults, different people also respond to training in different ways. Some people's physiology naturally builds up fast-twitch 'explosive' muscle with exercise, 'the fighters' if you like, and some people strengthen slow-twitch 'endurance' muscle, the 'flighters'. Your physiology is your physiology, you can't change that. Hence training will change peoples shape accordingly, and to become an athlete you have to know your own body. 'Fighters' aren't likely to be thin, and have to specifically train to build up endurance muscle. 'Flighters' aren't likely to be fat, and have to specifically train to build up explosive muscle. I guess by the nature of orienteering, most people are flighters and thin. But if your a fighter, then your a fighter and you have to respect your more muscular frame.
If you are training hard as an adult, you won't be carrying too much fat. But if you don't eat properly, you will lose weight which will eventually be detrimental to your health. A rule of thumb to follow is; to replenish muscle energy stores you need to eat carbs within 2 hrs of exercise, to boost muscle size you need to eat protein within two hours of exercise.
After this things get less straight forward:
In children, training and physiology aren't as intrinsically linked. Throughout puberty, hormones surge as one develops. Kids have growth spurts upwards and outwards until they find a working median which serves as their adult weight. Now it is highly likely that kids who train harder will have less fat (but not definite over a growth period), and over-training is potentially more detrimental in the young than in adults. The prime example is the former eastern block and asian athletes who overtrained as teenagers and are now on crutches. I guess the aim must be to train to whatever coaches see as an achieveable amount, eat accordingly and try not to worry too much. Strange things happen when your still growing. But be aware of the affect of under eating, an example of an individual incident of missing food is the Sutherlands girl in that test the family program (Respect is due to the b.t.w.). I'm in no way shape or form saying she has an eating problem, she seems extremly healthy and well balanced, but this is an indication of the importance of food.
In adults, different people also respond to training in different ways. Some people's physiology naturally builds up fast-twitch 'explosive' muscle with exercise, 'the fighters' if you like, and some people strengthen slow-twitch 'endurance' muscle, the 'flighters'. Your physiology is your physiology, you can't change that. Hence training will change peoples shape accordingly, and to become an athlete you have to know your own body. 'Fighters' aren't likely to be thin, and have to specifically train to build up endurance muscle. 'Flighters' aren't likely to be fat, and have to specifically train to build up explosive muscle. I guess by the nature of orienteering, most people are flighters and thin. But if your a fighter, then your a fighter and you have to respect your more muscular frame.
"Don't try and fulfil your maximum potential, it's disappointing when you realise that all you are capable of doing is eating less cheese." Dylan Moran
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Migsy - white
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I think as an adult it's probably fine to be told by a coach you have a close relationship that if you loose a bit of weight you'll probably get faster. Backed up with the dietary advice such as Toni got, this can only be a good thing as far as performance goes.
But I do think that to tell 16-20 year olds to loose weight to improve their performance is utterly wrong. Chances are, you won't even have grown into your adult shape, and putting on a bit of weight may just be a part of "growing up." As Rach says, Juniors should be encouraged to train regularly and in the right fashion, and if they do lose the weight as a consequence of this then that's fine.
But I do think that to tell 16-20 year olds to loose weight to improve their performance is utterly wrong. Chances are, you won't even have grown into your adult shape, and putting on a bit of weight may just be a part of "growing up." As Rach says, Juniors should be encouraged to train regularly and in the right fashion, and if they do lose the weight as a consequence of this then that's fine.
Will? We've got proper fire now!
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Becks - god
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