NT - Will this affect any O events?
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/featur ... cence-faqs
NT - Will this affect any O events?
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Re: NT - Will this affect any O events?
I'm guessing this is the crucial phrase in answering that question.
....and it will be up to the staff at BOF to negotiate a satisfactory interpretation of that phrase with the NT
A licence will be required if you are planning an event or activity which generates commercial or fundraising income on any National Trust land taking part in the pilot.
....and it will be up to the staff at BOF to negotiate a satisfactory interpretation of that phrase with the NT
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Mrs H - god
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Re: NT - Will this affect any O events?
we will require a licence 'for any sport event and outdoor activity on National Trust land, organised by an external provider with a participant charge.
Don't see any wriggle room there. Then they're wasting £100 on admin per application , and we pay a very reasonable 3% of entry fee to support the NT - though I'd be astonished if it stays that low.
The key for BOF is to ensure that granting the licences is based on proper studies of our impact on the countryside, not the prejudice of the local ranger. Specifically, that it generates more work for the people granting access to say "no" than to say "yes".
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Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: NT - Will this affect any O events?
How much will it cost me?
That will be dependent on the scale of the event, number of participants etc and is determined by the property staff. There will be an admin set-up fee of £50-100 and a percentage of entrance fees to the event (likely to be around 3%): the final cost will be dependent on the nature of the event, and agreed with the local property.
So that's £50-£100 for each event admin cost plus 3% from entry fee...does not leave much for the club to break even...entry costs going up again methinks.
Good luck local clubs (cos BO won't be doing much) to convince your local "property staff" that your little Level D event on a Saturday morning with 40 - 50 orienteers will not impact the precious NT land.
I assume being a member of the NT (that I am not!) will not offset any personal cost, why pay once when you can pay twice
- PhilJ
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Re: NT - Will this affect any O events?
The NT licence fee would be similar to what we typically pay the Forestry Commission for a level C event under the National Agreement; maybe somewhat less.
However our problem is total lack of interest / cooperation from NT staff in our area.
However our problem is total lack of interest / cooperation from NT staff in our area.
- Nimby
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Re: NT - Will this affect any O events?
It's not entirely unreasonable for the NT to ask for a contribution towards the maintenance of their land in return for us using it. £50-£100 + 3% seems pretty reasonable compared with what most councils/local authorities seem to charge for use of their parks etc, and generous compared with what most private landowners ask for. It sounds like there will be the possibility of organising an overarching licence for a series of small events, which might help with the smaller "summer series" type of level D race.
Do clubs need to break even on every event? For larger races the impact of this extra charge is going to be fairly minimal - no more than annual variation in toilet hire fees - and I expect most English clubs* are already running at least some proportion of their smaller races as loss leaders.
*Very small clubs who only really hold level D races and/or who have a large proportion of NT-owned areas probably will need to put their entry fees up by £1.
PhilJ wrote:does not leave much for the club to break even
Do clubs need to break even on every event? For larger races the impact of this extra charge is going to be fairly minimal - no more than annual variation in toilet hire fees - and I expect most English clubs* are already running at least some proportion of their smaller races as loss leaders.
*Very small clubs who only really hold level D races and/or who have a large proportion of NT-owned areas probably will need to put their entry fees up by £1.
British Orienteering Director | Opinions expressed on here are entirely my own, and do not represent the views of British Orienteering.
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"If only you were younger and better..."
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Scott - god
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Re: NT - Will this affect any O events?
Agreed - Swansea City Council charge circa £50 for use of their parks etc but this is a one off charge, so when the rough fixtures are organised for the following year a submission is made with estimated dates and venues with a cheque for £50, a one off charge, not as this seems - for each event.
I would be somewhat worried if clubs purposely host events as "loss leaders", each event should cover its costs surely, and have a bit of surplus to reinvest in mapping/equipment/SI or EMIT that get's knicked by the little local darlings etc. Not all clubs have the manpower nor areas to host large events to make up the shortfall.
Maybe NT have cottoned onto the recent Park Run "publicity" and want a piece of the cake?
Time will tell how the English trial will impact O areas.
I would be somewhat worried if clubs purposely host events as "loss leaders", each event should cover its costs surely, and have a bit of surplus to reinvest in mapping/equipment/SI or EMIT that get's knicked by the little local darlings etc. Not all clubs have the manpower nor areas to host large events to make up the shortfall.
Maybe NT have cottoned onto the recent Park Run "publicity" and want a piece of the cake?
Time will tell how the English trial will impact O areas.
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Re: NT - Will this affect any O events?
denbydale wrote:NT - Will this affect any O events?
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/featur ... cence-faqs
Not in Scotland.
- Big Jon
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Re: NT - Will this affect any O events?
PhilJ wrote:I would be somewhat worried if clubs purposely host events as "loss leaders", each event should cover its costs surely, and have a bit of surplus to reinvest in mapping/equipment/SI or EMIT that get's knicked by the little local darlings etc. Not all clubs have the manpower nor areas to host large events to make up the shortfall.
I know of a number of clubs that deliberately do this, but you're right that they all have at least one "banker" of a big annual race, where they can be reasonably confident of making enough money that they then don't need to worry about losing £20-£50 on the odd weekday evening/Saturday morning level D. I agree that smaller clubs who don't have that luxury will definitely be harder hit.
PhilJ wrote:Maybe NT have cottoned onto the recent Park Run "publicity" and want a piece of the cake?
Indeed, although it's interesting that Park Runs, by virtue of not charging an entry fee, will presumably remain exempt from any licensing charges.
British Orienteering Director | Opinions expressed on here are entirely my own, and do not represent the views of British Orienteering.
"If only you were younger and better..."
"If only you were younger and better..."
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Scott - god
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Re: NT - Will this affect any O events?
Big Jon wrote:Not in Scotland.
You wish... How long was it before the Forestry Commission found a loophole in Land access legislation to charge~£1/head? NTS will follow any successful pilot.
Not that I have any objection to pointing a few quid at the FC/NTS.
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Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: NT - Will this affect any O events?
graeme wrote:Big Jon wrote:Not in Scotland.
You wish... How long was it before the Forestry Commission found a loophole in Land access legislation to charge~£1/head? NTS will follow any successful pilot.
Not that I have any objection to pointing a few quid at the FC/NTS.
Just avoid adult events in FCS areas and no costs - the JIRCs will have vast numbers of juniors and the FCS won't get a penny
If clubs have made maps for permanent courses and FCS or NTS start charging then refuse them access to the maps for the PCs (or start marketing them yourselves) and cut out the greedy landowners.
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Re: NT - Will this affect any O events?
I'm due to visit Croome Park tomorrow to finalise arrangements for the use of the grounds next Wednesday evening with my Guide unit. The new Visitor Welcome Assistant wants a donation of £50. I shall point out that members of my club, Harlequins, mapped the park for them and designed and helped to put in the POC.
Last year, all that was wanted (by a different member of staff) was numbers of National Trust members taking part, adults and girls, so that they could claim from NT central as part of their visitor numbers.
I'll let you know how I get on.
Last year, all that was wanted (by a different member of staff) was numbers of National Trust members taking part, adults and girls, so that they could claim from NT central as part of their visitor numbers.
I'll let you know how I get on.
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