I know the trend has been going on for a while, but it really struck me at BOC quite how old (in terms of participants and helpers) orienteering has become.
Before I go on I should clarify that:
- I realise "old" is subjective and to a large extent in your head
- I realise older orienteers do the vast majority of event organising and helping
- I think it's great that ours is a sport that can be done from 8 to 80+
- I have nothing against old people
However, I wonder whether we're in a self-fulfilling circle where the current age profile of orienteers actively puts off younger people from joining the sport (at least at BOC). When I was 21, most people seemed to be around 40 and that was fine. Now that I'm 40, most people seem to be 60+, which does feel a bit strange. I wonder how it feels to a youngster or a 21 year old who turns up at BOC? Will they come back next year?
And older folk tend to generally be more conservative, which again entrenches the status quo. (A vast generalisation I know but also factually true). I suppose a lot of innovation is happening in other parts of the sport (city races, sprints) and the JK is still holding up well in numbers and with a more diverse age range.
But I do wonder what BOC will look like in 20 years' time.
(now waiting to be flamed for ageism)
Old orienteering
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Re: Old orienteering
Either a lot more sticks and even all terrain zimmer frames or following recent tech trends we will be running on treadmills in perfect forests. My avatar will look fantastic btw
- johnrobinson
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Re: Old orienteering
By then you will need a second mortgage to afford the entry fee so I doubt many youngsters will be able to afford it anyway.
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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Re: Old orienteering
Arnold wrote:(now waiting to be flamed for ageism)
Not from me - it's a fair point. I was struck at the JK that in the team I had for putting out and collecting controls, of the nine of us, only one was under 40, and seven of us were over 55. Most of that team could well not be physically capable of doing the same job next time round in Yorkshire (some of us wondered whether we were this time!!).
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Re: Old orienteering
Think who got you into the sport of orienteering - for the over 50's it was probably a teacher, youth group leader (scouts etc). Time change and now no-one else will do it for us, not teachers, not youth groups, it needs to be orienteers working locally getting the next generation into the sport.
Get organising after-school clubs with regular weekly training, then link the newcomers to the local club and ensure the club put on proper, regular technical training. Its not rocket science to get newcomers into the sport, but it needs time and commitment. Otherwise the predictions of doom will come to pass and orienteering will die in this country.
Get organising after-school clubs with regular weekly training, then link the newcomers to the local club and ensure the club put on proper, regular technical training. Its not rocket science to get newcomers into the sport, but it needs time and commitment. Otherwise the predictions of doom will come to pass and orienteering will die in this country.
- Big Jon
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Re: Old orienteering
I agree AWK - and it's not just about finding volunteers able to get the controls out and back. As a very minor part of the volunteer team last weekend, the sheer physical effort was huge. My impression is that the sport has long relied on fit and enthusiastic early retirees, and that these are no longer coming through in the same numbers. And the level of expectations for events at all levels is ever increasing.
- Marian
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Re: Old orienteering
I'd come to a similar conclusion looking at the numbers in the results (I wasn't at the event): in the 21s there were only 46 men and 36 women (I know some of the elites were elsewhere, but those classes weren't the most depleted), even in the 40s there were only 28 men and 19 women. M65L and W55L were the biggest (75 and 43). Compare that to 1998 (for which I happened to have the results): 175 men and 101 women in the 21 categories, M/W45L the biggest at 171 and 73, and overall about 1000 more competitors.
The junior numbers were not so different, so I'm not sure that they're the ones we really need to attract - it's more the young adults (although I agree that sometimes children can be a route to getting parents involved).
The junior numbers were not so different, so I'm not sure that they're the ones we really need to attract - it's more the young adults (although I agree that sometimes children can be a route to getting parents involved).
- roadrunner
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Re: Old orienteering
Big Jon wrote: Its not rocket science to get newcomers into the sport, but it needs time and commitment.
Quite.... but it does take a 'model' that works. As a sport we used to put a lot of effort into the 'Come-And-Try-It' model. But that never really brought in the numbers. Letting someone experience an orienteering course, once, doesn't necessarily fit the bill. There are just so many skills that are actually needed.
Listen to clubs and people who have a working 'model' that is producing new members and building their club. Take something from that example and develop your own, for your club.
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Re: Old orienteering
I think we have also made the sport less accessible to adult newcomers than it used to be.....as covered in the thread on BOC courses, we have an increasingly high proportion of controls per kilometre on adult courses - compared with 20-30 years ago this means courses in general are much less suitable for newcomers with a running background to learn the sport.
It has to be better for newcomers to feel from outset like they did decent portions of the course pretty well and had an enjoyable time including some decent stretches of running - if they don't enjoy the experience then why would they come back?
It shouldn't all be path running of course, but it is a running sport as well as a navigation sport!
I think offering an appropriate mix of running and navigation is partly why newcomers often find urban more attractive than forest orienteering - to appeal more widely to those people, the courses at forest events need to be something that can be enjoyable for people learning the sport as well as for people with years and years of experience. Does our sport really offer that at most events today?
It has to be better for newcomers to feel from outset like they did decent portions of the course pretty well and had an enjoyable time including some decent stretches of running - if they don't enjoy the experience then why would they come back?
It shouldn't all be path running of course, but it is a running sport as well as a navigation sport!
I think offering an appropriate mix of running and navigation is partly why newcomers often find urban more attractive than forest orienteering - to appeal more widely to those people, the courses at forest events need to be something that can be enjoyable for people learning the sport as well as for people with years and years of experience. Does our sport really offer that at most events today?
Why did I do that...
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Re: Old orienteering
Just getting new members will automatically lower the age profile, and the 30-50 age group are probably easier to target than the 20 somethings for many clubs.
Most clubs have a good base of local events to publicise - Arnold your club has all those ParkRaces, Trail Challenges and street scores which are ideal
It's worth reading these bits from the 2015 TVOC AGM. Most of us know now that TVOC have been storming ahead with publicity and other development work using fairly standard local events.
Most clubs have a good base of local events to publicise - Arnold your club has all those ParkRaces, Trail Challenges and street scores which are ideal
It's worth reading these bits from the 2015 TVOC AGM. Most of us know now that TVOC have been storming ahead with publicity and other development work using fairly standard local events.
Membership Secretary handed out a summary Review of Membership 2014-15
Key comments:
• Total membership has gone up again, from 221 last year to 244 during 2015
• Over 40 people joined this year. Some members did not renew their membership.
• We do have a significant number of juniors at the moment. Let’s hope that we can
keep them as long-term members of the club
• We have a big peak of males aged 50-54
• The average age of our senior members (i.e. excluding juniors) is 58
• The average age of new senior members who joined in 2014 is 45
• The average age of new senior members who joined in 2015 is 42
• 15 new members have joined since November, with our 14-months-for-the-price-of two offer
- SeanC
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Re: Old orienteering
Organiser's comments
Ay up me ducks, we had a good party in Bradgate Renewable Energy Park for the 2036 British Championships didn't we? Me and the team hope you go away with fond memories and are proud of the hard-earned personal medals we gave to all at the banquet-concert. We got many, lots of favourable comments over the weekend, and we are mighty proud of our subsequent social media brandscore.
Particular hearty thanks onto "New Capital Games". They really enthusiastically like put our championships in the celebratory programme for the establishment of the new English capital here. Having such an influential sponsor on board was mega-essential to being able to put the championships on in the way you wanted.
Congratulations to our overall champions (pictures and audio deleted from this version):
Sarah and Geoff in W60 and M60;
Polly and Oli in the mass start loop races for the under 60s.
In preparing for the event I went back with BOC 2016, when the classic championships were also in Midlands. (With a Scandinavian style relay event, and the urban element were just a sideshow!) Many of you were there - but not most of you. Come all the change it would have been very hard then to imagine how our sport would come on. Of course, all sport reflects society, and the enormous changes there have created many waves (sometimes even literally) and been our biggest influence. The National Internet Archive held many useful items, and listening to discussions on something called Nopesport - nope, I don't know why it was called that, ha-ha - was a difficult but enlightening chore.
It seems to me back then the main ethos was still purist. Those guy were the pioneers of the sport, continually striving to improve the technical standards of the maps, the predictability of the courses, and to guarantee continually demanding technicality. (Some commentators regularly denounced courses as being too much running, too long, and not enough trickery.) There was also a noisy lobby of "cheaper is better", despite the affluent demographic of the sport and the very generous nature of the very same people, probably dating back to when people went youth-hostelling after the second world war. It was unclear back then if that would continue as the next generation in turn became old and took over, like in organized religion, or whether having joined the sport once it was mature they would come at it different.
The change happened gradually, partly through the increased presence of commercial events and the way they grabbed younger adults, partly through the big clubs races, and partly through mind-shifting incidents (such as the distant SI control box being switched mid-event for a finish unit stolen from an earlier event.) That we had steered clear of the scandals of the Olympics helped a bit too. But a main factor was the diligent work of the Federation Executive through 2025 and 2026 to get BOC accredited as both physical and mental credits for the NHS robo-doctor "Earn Treatment Scheme", which we now take so much for granted.
Next year's event will be hosted by South at the Heathrow Complex, where the new housing development combined with the remaining airport structures will provide a true 3D challenge. I hope by then the relevant parties can settle the question of the eligibility of British runners living in Scotland. I know there are also some questions over the way the new ranking points are allocated; some things never change.
<edit: if being optimistic about orienteering should also be optimistic about the energy problem.>
Ay up me ducks, we had a good party in Bradgate Renewable Energy Park for the 2036 British Championships didn't we? Me and the team hope you go away with fond memories and are proud of the hard-earned personal medals we gave to all at the banquet-concert. We got many, lots of favourable comments over the weekend, and we are mighty proud of our subsequent social media brandscore.
Particular hearty thanks onto "New Capital Games". They really enthusiastically like put our championships in the celebratory programme for the establishment of the new English capital here. Having such an influential sponsor on board was mega-essential to being able to put the championships on in the way you wanted.
Congratulations to our overall champions (pictures and audio deleted from this version):
Sarah and Geoff in W60 and M60;
Polly and Oli in the mass start loop races for the under 60s.
In preparing for the event I went back with BOC 2016, when the classic championships were also in Midlands. (With a Scandinavian style relay event, and the urban element were just a sideshow!) Many of you were there - but not most of you. Come all the change it would have been very hard then to imagine how our sport would come on. Of course, all sport reflects society, and the enormous changes there have created many waves (sometimes even literally) and been our biggest influence. The National Internet Archive held many useful items, and listening to discussions on something called Nopesport - nope, I don't know why it was called that, ha-ha - was a difficult but enlightening chore.
It seems to me back then the main ethos was still purist. Those guy were the pioneers of the sport, continually striving to improve the technical standards of the maps, the predictability of the courses, and to guarantee continually demanding technicality. (Some commentators regularly denounced courses as being too much running, too long, and not enough trickery.) There was also a noisy lobby of "cheaper is better", despite the affluent demographic of the sport and the very generous nature of the very same people, probably dating back to when people went youth-hostelling after the second world war. It was unclear back then if that would continue as the next generation in turn became old and took over, like in organized religion, or whether having joined the sport once it was mature they would come at it different.
The change happened gradually, partly through the increased presence of commercial events and the way they grabbed younger adults, partly through the big clubs races, and partly through mind-shifting incidents (such as the distant SI control box being switched mid-event for a finish unit stolen from an earlier event.) That we had steered clear of the scandals of the Olympics helped a bit too. But a main factor was the diligent work of the Federation Executive through 2025 and 2026 to get BOC accredited as both physical and mental credits for the NHS robo-doctor "Earn Treatment Scheme", which we now take so much for granted.
Next year's event will be hosted by South at the Heathrow Complex, where the new housing development combined with the remaining airport structures will provide a true 3D challenge. I hope by then the relevant parties can settle the question of the eligibility of British runners living in Scotland. I know there are also some questions over the way the new ranking points are allocated; some things never change.
<edit: if being optimistic about orienteering should also be optimistic about the energy problem.>
Last edited by afterthought on Thu May 05, 2016 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Old orienteering
SeanC wrote:Just getting new members will automatically lower the age profile, and the 30-50 age group are probably easier to target than the 20 somethings for many clubs.
Maybe we need to tap off the success of the obstacle races that young folks seem to love doing these days, spending £30 - 40 to get muddy, electrocuted and come out of the other end feeling like they've achieved something... maybe for a free t-shirt or headband...
We could just get photographs of the muddiest and damaged competitors and some challenging terrain and share the marketing across the country with a tag line that emphasises natural obstacles and at a fraction of the cost of Tough Mudder...
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Re: Old orienteering
plain lazy wrote:maybe for a free t-shirt or headband...
Buffs for everyone!!
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
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Re: Old orienteering
andy wrote:Buffs for everyone!!
-
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Re: Old orienteering
plain lazy wrote:andy wrote:Buffs for everyone!!
Not more buffs... the drawer is full of them.
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