And another thing....
The terrain hasn't changed in 30 years - Wendover is still much the same as when I first ran there in 1980. I concede that some southern areas benefit from a middle style course where it can keep you off the paths but the examples show that you don't have to default to middle style. As Sean says, the choice of going up'n'over or round, even on paths, is a perfectly good orienteering challenge, as is risking a straight route through the terrain against going around on the paths, and at least makes a change from using the previous control as the attackpoint for the next.
The British...
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Re: The British...
BOC 93 M19A was 10.6k, 300m climb and 17 controls.
- Arnold
- diehard
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Re: The British...
Tim wrote:[Rant mode on]
What gets me is that course in question, course 8, is the first course to be given a 1:10,000 map which proves what I have known for a long time; that the larger the scale of map the more controls you get. Should the scale of the map affect the planning of the "best course"? No, but evidently it does.
Looking back at my maps from the 1980's a 10km course would have about 18-20 controls.
Fairly obviously 2 things have changed course planning, in my view for the worse.
1:10k maps; these are now the norm. 30 years ago it was 1:15k. As a result we get more controls as planners appear to judge leg length by how long it appears on the map rather than how far it is on the ground.
I can't speak for the British Champs planner, but as the JK planner, how long a leg appeared on the 1:10k map was completely irrelevant. I planned all my courses in Condes, where the 1:15k map and the 1:10k map looked exactly the same on screen - or at least showed the same variety, as I kept changing the scale of the view and had no idea what the legs looked like at 1:10k or 1:15k until after the courses were pretty much planned.
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awk - god
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Re: The British...
May I respectfully suggest that people actually do the event before they start complaining about the courses!
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Mrs H - god
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Re: The British...
au contraire, it far to easy to be wise after the event. I think it's important that people comment ahead of time to deflect any "it was due to unforeseeable circumstances" excuses. Or, e.g. with the JK long, to emphasize that the circumstances really were unforeseeable.
This is quite striking...
M40L 1:15,000 9.2k 410m 25 controls
M45L 1:10,000 9.2k 280m 32 controls
and may represent a different planning philosophy.
The chat from james in our house has been "If Iain Embrey is planning it's bound to be fantastic" - so let see if the facts bear that one out!
And please feel free to slag off tomorrow's chasing sprint courses in advance.
This is quite striking...
M40L 1:15,000 9.2k 410m 25 controls
M45L 1:10,000 9.2k 280m 32 controls
and may represent a different planning philosophy.
The chat from james in our house has been "If Iain Embrey is planning it's bound to be fantastic" - so let see if the facts bear that one out!
And please feel free to slag off tomorrow's chasing sprint courses in advance.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: The British...
I'm a bit confused by this sentence from the relay details, regarding fence crossings.
Those crossing points that are not on the obvious line between controls have a control on or close to them – do not forget to punch it.
So crossing points that don't have a control near them will have a control near them?
Does this mean
a) additional controls have been inserted into the course at or near crossing points to encourage you to use them
or
b) there are punches at crossing points that you are expected to punch even though they are not controls on the course
?
I'm easily confused.
Those crossing points that are not on the obvious line between controls have a control on or close to them – do not forget to punch it.
So crossing points that don't have a control near them will have a control near them?
Does this mean
a) additional controls have been inserted into the course at or near crossing points to encourage you to use them
or
b) there are punches at crossing points that you are expected to punch even though they are not controls on the course
?
I'm easily confused.
- frostbite
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Re: The British...
You still punch all the controls on your list and no extra ones. It just means some folk have a control at the crossing point and have to remember to punch it and not get too excited trying to beat someone else getting over the stile.
- frog
Re: The British...
frog wrote:You still punch all the controls on your list and no extra ones. It just means some folk have a control at the crossing point and have to remember to punch it and not get too excited trying to beat someone else getting over the stile.
I was sort of assuming that was the intention but the implied contradiction was too much for me.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Re: The British...
Mrs H wrote:May I respectfully suggest that people actually do the event before they start complaining about the courses!
I can see that much discussion of the courses will be fairer and better informed after the event, and we may even have thoughts from the planners as well then. I think it is OK though to mention the thought that courses may be 10-15% too short. And have more controls than traditional for a long (but perhaps the crossings explain that.) It is keen people anticipating the event and getting excited about it. And look we do all get to start near the arena, and have the chance to see the elite start and a run-through.
As to Arnold's original post about the elite classes, yes it does seem there is a clear favourite in the men's - one guy ranked 20th in the world with the next people being above 300 - but a very open race in the women's, even if there are only 11 entries. They may not all stand a chance of winning, but they surely all stand a chance of being able to say in future that they came in the top 10 in the (Classic) British Championships.
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Re: The British...
james wrote:If Iain Embrey is planning it's bound to be fantastic
Indeed
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Roger - diehard
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Re: The British...
afterthought wrote: I think it is OK though to mention the thought that courses may be 10-15% too short. And have more controls than traditional for a long
Perhaps! BUT Tim, by his own admission, was ranting which says more about him than the courses in my opinion. I'm with James and Rpger on this one. My only regret is that I shall not be there to enjoy it!
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Mrs H - god
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Re: The British...
frostbite wrote:I'm a bit confused by this sentence from the relay details, regarding fence crossings.
Note also that the must-not-be-crossed fences haven't been overprinted with purple, so there's no way of knowing from the map that you're not allowed to cross them. Fingers crossed that everyone will read the final details...
British Orienteering Director | Opinions expressed on here are entirely my own, and do not represent the views of British Orienteering.
"If only you were younger and better..."
"If only you were younger and better..."
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Scott - god
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Re: The British...
Those crossing points that are not on the obvious line between controls have a control on or close to them – do not forget to punch it.
You still punch all the controls on your list and no extra ones.
Perhaps, but perhaps not.
My interpretation, which could easily be wrong, is that there is a choice of crossing points on some legs, with the line linking mapped controls not passing through any of them. But that the crossing point you use will have a control flag that needs to be punched even though it is not shown as a control circle on the map. And so it may or may not be in the description list.
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Re: The British...
Snail wrote:Those crossing points that are not on the obvious line between controls have a control on or close to them – do not forget to punch it.You still punch all the controls on your list and no extra ones.
Perhaps, but perhaps not.
My interpretation, which could easily be wrong, is that there is a choice of crossing points on some legs, with the line linking mapped controls not passing through any of them. But that the crossing point you use will have a control flag that needs to be punched even though it is not shown as a control circle on the map. And so it may or may not be in the description list.
Not sure how you've got that interpretation.
As I read it:
- there are fence crossing points on or close to the straight line, that the planner is hoping the competitors will run through
- there are fence crossing points not on or close to the straight line, and the planner is forcing competitors to run through them by making them a control (which will obviously be on the map and CDs)
That all seems fine (other than the risk that runners do cross the fences not at crossing points, which would not be against the rules of the race, but would annoy the planner/organiser/land owner).
Martin Ward, SYO (Chair) & SPOOK.
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Spookster - god
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Re: The British...
Tim wrote:9.2km with 32 controls - have I inadvertently entered the British Middle Champs?
For those without a calculator to hand that's an average leg length of 287.5m
I'm with Tim on this. It does appear, from those stats, that we've entered a "double-middle" race. I look forward to being wrong, and enjoying the challenge of the long leg(s).
Martin Ward, SYO (Chair) & SPOOK.
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