The M65 BOC course was excellent... one in a long list of excellent courses this year (BNOC, Wass, N Champs) all of which were tough physically and technically and produced reasonably correct winning times for the course regardless of whether or not they fitted into some mythical idea of what a perfect classic race should be. When we get the opportunity to build perfect terrain (as golfers do) then we can all plan perfect courses. This can probably done in wilderness areas with no fences or paths (and when the planner can choose the perfect start and finish location with no constraints due to parking and assembly fields) but in England I'd rather have shorter than perfect legs rather than long path runs.
So well done to all the officials!
The British...
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Re: The British...
I think terrain must have an effect. Someone came up with Appendix B 7.1.3
The effect of removing terrain completely can perhaps be estimated from something like half-marathon age grading tables, which I think suggest a speed ratio of around 80% at M60-64 compared to the Appendix B ratio of 70%.
But I'm more with yted on this - if the course is good I am probably not bothered at all if it is up to 15% over or under the theoretical length, and only slightly bothered at 15-25%. If we had "perfect" courses every year perhaps we would have the same champions every year - which would definitely be less interesting!
Speed ratios for older competitors in Sprint/Urban races tend to be slightly higher due to the less physical nature of the courses.
The effect of removing terrain completely can perhaps be estimated from something like half-marathon age grading tables, which I think suggest a speed ratio of around 80% at M60-64 compared to the Appendix B ratio of 70%.
But I'm more with yted on this - if the course is good I am probably not bothered at all if it is up to 15% over or under the theoretical length, and only slightly bothered at 15-25%. If we had "perfect" courses every year perhaps we would have the same champions every year - which would definitely be less interesting!
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It's all gg's fault.
andypat wrote:Is it a case of what takes precedence - the rules of orienteering or the rules of the British championships? ... some of us seeing absolutes
If one took seriously the idea that all lengths must be scaled from M21E winning time, then all the BOC courses went from being too long to being too short when gg pressed the "enter" button. Similarly, the JK courses automagically became too long when gg stopped in the hail.
yted: agreed, M65 looks good with five legs of 4mins+ and a 7 minuter. But would you call M45 or M50 good? You also say the northern champs planning was excellent, my course certainly was, due to the variety of leg length achieved by accepting some track running to produce the great routechoice legs.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: The British...
If one took seriously the idea that all lengths must be scaled from M21E winning time, then all the BOC courses went from being too long to being too short when gg pressed the "enter" button.
2.7.4 Do not try to adjust the course length to cater for the expected quality of the competitors, e.g. by making a particular course longer because you know that some top orienteers will be entering. Similarly, if the running times on a particular course turn out to be longer than intended simply because the quality of the entry was low, this does not mean that the course was planned too long!
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Re: It's all gg's fault.
graeme wrote:If one took seriously the idea that all lengths must be scaled from M21E winning time, then all the BOC courses went from being too long to being too short when gg pressed the "enter" button. Similarly, the JK courses automagically became too long when gg stopped in the hail.
I was expecting GG to take over 100 minutes anyway - he was not used as the benchmark for the 90-100 min EWT.
andypat/SJC: fair point on the British and lack of rule about using ratios. The JK rules do state that the ratios should be used, but the British for some reason doesn't, although the implication is pretty clear, especially if one keeps 2.7.1 in Appendix B in mind (and, unlike me, remembers that the rules do mention the physical difference in rough terrrain!).
The point I was trying to make though was that there was no failure in Ian's planning for the older classes, which overall look pretty much spot on.
BTW andypat, in answer to your question on rules priority, the introductory blurb for the British Champs rules say that where they vary, the Competition rules take precedence.
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awk - god
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Re: The British...
We should assume that GG is going to run everything (he normally does anyway...) and plan for him , or when it's a WRE plan for Hubman or Thierry. I'm confident that one of those guys would have run the JK long on EWT in normal or even poor weather, maybe not in the apocalypse that we had though.
I wonder how much of a planning drift there has been in areas that don't have any top M21s living there?
I wonder how much of a planning drift there has been in areas that don't have any top M21s living there?
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mharky - team nopesport
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Re: The British...
Now THAT is a classic course...
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Re: The British...
Arnold wrote:Now THAT is a classic course...
Except it's nearly 3km too short for a real classic race
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mharky - team nopesport
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