JK Format
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Re: JK Format
FWIW the M45s course at Wass was a perfectly acceptable middle distance course - I didnt have a single long route choice leg. I cose this because of fitness/childcare issues rather than a specific desire to do middle - but I do like middle distance for the level of concnetration required.
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- andypat
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Re: JK Format
graeme wrote: We tried it with the World Ranking Event at Scottish Spring - and got 36 entries on the middle courses . More people entered blue and green (i.e. the same course marketed as standard distance). I won't be doing that again!
I'm one of those who've entered Blue rather than the Elite Middle Distance.
I must have misunderstood your intention. I thought the Middle Distance race was an Elite WRE and the Blue course was the chance for us punters/has-beens who wanted to run the same course as the Elites.
You can certainly switch me to the Elite class if you want, but I can't be bothered with IOF ID's and separate entry via Eventor. I'm not paying the extra 2 quid either!
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Homer - diehard
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Re: JK Format
Here's the area in question...
http://www.go.routegadget.co.uk/rg2/#21
a fairly typical bit of South Downs (extendable east and south). Nice enough place for a run, but not exactly super-technical orienteering for 2000 people, rather "run on a bearing (look for big pile of people), rinse and repeat".
http://www.go.routegadget.co.uk/rg2/#21
a fairly typical bit of South Downs (extendable east and south). Nice enough place for a run, but not exactly super-technical orienteering for 2000 people, rather "run on a bearing (look for big pile of people), rinse and repeat".
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: JK Format
I did the same as Homer. As I'm not an elite athlete I went for the cheaper run with the plebs option. Maybe putting elite in the course title isn't a good idea if you want non-elites to enter it, although why would you pay £2 more to run the same course if you're not elite or bothered about ranking points?
For me the actual course is the important bit, I don't care what name it's given.
For me the actual course is the important bit, I don't care what name it's given.
- frog
Re: JK Format
With the middle distance re long distance thing for the JK I think I'm less bothered about the difference between the 2 than I was when I was younger when there were more kilometres involved.
In the M/W 18-40 bracket it's more of an issue.
In the M/W 18-40 bracket it's more of an issue.
- frog
Re: JK Format
Although I like Middle Distance races and compete in them whenever I can (which isn't very often as there aren't many of them), I'm against the move to introduce it on the grounds that it could have a big negative effect on entry.
When we asked the question in 2011, 36% were in favour, 35% were neutral and 29% were against the introduction of a Middle race, crudely an even three-way split.
My feeling is that, were we to swap a Long day for a Middle one, there would be few (if any) extra entries as a result. But if the 13% who strongly disagreed with the proposal voted with their feet, then the entry would be down by some 400 or so compared with the recent average of 3000.
That the JK's numbers have been remarkably buoyant in the last few years suggests that the programme is right and not that it is broke and needs mending ...
When we asked the question in 2011, 36% were in favour, 35% were neutral and 29% were against the introduction of a Middle race, crudely an even three-way split.
My feeling is that, were we to swap a Long day for a Middle one, there would be few (if any) extra entries as a result. But if the 13% who strongly disagreed with the proposal voted with their feet, then the entry would be down by some 400 or so compared with the recent average of 3000.
That the JK's numbers have been remarkably buoyant in the last few years suggests that the programme is right and not that it is broke and needs mending ...
- DJM
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Re: JK Format
frog wrote:I did the same as Homer. As I'm not an elite athlete I went for the cheaper run with the plebs option. Maybe putting elite in the course title isn't a good idea if you want non-elites to enter it, although why would you pay £2 more to run the same course if you're not elite or bothered about ranking points?
For me the actual course is the important bit, I don't care what name it's given.
I also did the same as Homer and Frog.
I realised they were the same course, and I was not put off by the extra £2 (didn't even notice it). I thought the Elite / WRE was purely for Elite / WRE and that the Blue was the opportunity for us also rans to run the same course. Also, I don't have an IOF / Eventor code and am probably a bit past starting to try to accumulate WRE points.
I am happy to be switched to the WRE course if the organisers want to combine us all.
curro ergo sum
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King Penguin - addict
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Re: JK Format
Back to the JK..
I've just e-mailed Scott Parker at BO to ask if the survey is going to be e-mailed to all competitors at the JK for the last few years. Chances of most people spotting it on the not-usually-very-interesting BO website are not high. I rely on you folks to flag up anything important! Do you think overseas competitors have a say?
Edit: As others have said - don't change a successful format.
I've just e-mailed Scott Parker at BO to ask if the survey is going to be e-mailed to all competitors at the JK for the last few years. Chances of most people spotting it on the not-usually-very-interesting BO website are not high. I rely on you folks to flag up anything important! Do you think overseas competitors have a say?
Edit: As others have said - don't change a successful format.
- Karen
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Re: JK Format
Snail wrote: people have that option at the moment... I wonder how many take it up?
Not many - in 2014 I expected that the planner would concentrate on making the WRE course especially good. I chose to run middle (M21) on day 1 and long (M50) on day 2. It was indeed excellent, and I can see this becoming a popular option if day 2 becomes "middle for all".
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: JK Format
Scott wrote:I am very strongly in favour of a JK Middle for everyone. I like middle races, and I've only ever known the JK to be Sprint, Middle, Long, Relay - that's just what the JK is. But I'm not far off 35 and I'm not sure I want to keep running M21E indefinitely just to get a middle race...
I should also say that, as well as not looking forward to losing the JK Middle as an M35, I'm not really looking forward to losing the Long either. Can I continue to have a Middle on the Saturday and a (age-speed-ratio proportionate) 100min winning time on the Sunday please?
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"If only you were younger and better..."
"If only you were younger and better..."
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Scott - god
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Re: JK Format
People can enter whatever they like at Scottish Spring, whatever Graeme says
We have World Ranking status so that our elites who want to get some points can - not a single club volunteered (outside the JK) to put on a World Ranking Event this year. I asked Northern Champs to host one (which they are doing), and I am organising the other 3 that GB is entitled to....
If they don't get organised, it is the GB team that suffers. Get your club bidding for WREs next year! Almost negligible extra work, and the cost is minimal spread over an event with 100+ entries.
We have World Ranking status so that our elites who want to get some points can - not a single club volunteered (outside the JK) to put on a World Ranking Event this year. I asked Northern Champs to host one (which they are doing), and I am organising the other 3 that GB is entitled to....
If they don't get organised, it is the GB team that suffers. Get your club bidding for WREs next year! Almost negligible extra work, and the cost is minimal spread over an event with 100+ entries.
- gg
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Re: JK Format
graeme wrote:If you like middle, don't try to exploit a monopoly - put on a successful standalone middle weekend. Once they are flourishing in the way urban is then you can make the case for the JK. We tried it with the World Ranking Event at Scottish Spring - and got 36 entries on the middle courses . More people entered blue and green (i.e. the same course marketed as standard distance). I won't be doing that again!
* I think we were the last to put both training and sprint on Good Friday. Sprint attendance won by 10:1.
The sprint is a good example: at the time the JK Sprint was first put on, the Sprint format wasn't exactly attracting people in droves. Its inclusion in the JK is, I'm sure, part of its growing success: I remember how many of my club tried a sprint for the first time at the JK and were surprised that they liked it (quite a few having chuntered on about it beforehand). And, of course, it would attract more than a training event. Give people the option of a Middle race or a training event, and you'd see the same ratio of take-up.
I think you've got your answer about Scottish Spring - nothing to do with the fact that it is a middle distance.
snail wrote:Just rename the Day 2 Short courses as Middle - so everyone has the choice of Middle or Long, and see how many people enter them
Good idea. But make the overall trophy based on the Middle on Day 2 and the Long (and a genuine long) on Day 3.
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awk - god
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Re: JK Format
Give people the option of a Middle race or a training event, and you'd see the same ratio of take-up.
Based on experience, give people the option of any competitive race or a training event and you'd see the same ratio of take-up.
- SJC
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Re: JK Format
DJM wrote:Although I like Middle Distance races and compete in them whenever I can (which isn't very often as there aren't many of them).
Why are there not many of them?
- Gnitworp
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Re: JK Format
Not particularly in favour of the proposal, but I would hope that if Day 2 becomes a Middle race for all then Day 3 would become a proper Classic race for all, i.e. the current 10% reduction in non-elite course lengths would be removed.
I don't recall this being clear in the survey.
Does anyone know what is happening in 2017?
I don't recall this being clear in the survey.
Does anyone know what is happening in 2017?
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