Our weekly level D events are SIAC enabled, and where possible the units are turned on before they are set out. We have a small number of SIAC ecards to loan and quite a few people have their own. So people can practise using them, and others can try them out. They are still a normal ecard and will work whatever..... but it is good to use them and find out where this fabled time saving can be achieved.
Remember how you used to hold your control card in your left hand with the thumb covering the last punchmark, allowing the punch to slide onto the control card in the right place, giving a much improved flow through the controls!
SIAC readiness
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Re: SIAC readiness
IOF Statement on this: http://orienteering.org/iof-statement-o ... -punching/
Hopefully BOF bring their recent statement in line, while I agree with BOF in an ideal world the above IOF statement will allow contactless punching to gradually become more and more widespread in its use
Hopefully BOF bring their recent statement in line, while I agree with BOF in an ideal world the above IOF statement will allow contactless punching to gradually become more and more widespread in its use
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
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Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
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Re: SIAC readiness
They decided that no rule changes are needed at present. They feel that it is obvious that at an event using contactless punching, contactless cards must be available on loan (if necessary for a small fee) for all those who do not have their own contactless card. However, those competitors who wish to use their contact card, perhaps because they feel more confident punching that way, should be allowed to do so.
We still need to work out how to ensure there are enough hire cards available and what that "small fee" will be. Is it OK to have a set limited quantity (not sure how you set that quantity) and when they run out, tough. Or must there be enough for every competitor that wants one.
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Re: SIAC readiness
Well IOF is definitely toeing a different line to BOF so far. Be interesting to see how that progresses.
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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Re: SIAC readiness
andypat wrote:Well IOF is definitely toeing a different line to BOF so far. Be interesting to see how that progresses.
I really don't see there is a difference in the approach of IOF or the ECC. Both see it as self evident that those with a contactless card would be at an unfair advantage - both would therefore require contactless cards to be available to all competitors. OK the exact wording is slightly different in that the IOF explictly permits competitors to choose to put themselves at a disadvantage, but I doubt the ECC would have a problem with that.
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Re: SIAC readiness
Paul Frost wrote:They decided that no rule changes are needed at present. They feel that it is obvious that at an event using contactless punching, contactless cards must be available on loan (if necessary for a small fee) for all those who do not have their own contactless card. However, those competitors who wish to use their contact card, perhaps because they feel more confident punching that way, should be allowed to do so.
We still need to work out how to ensure there are enough hire cards available and what that "small fee" will be.
Well they seem to manage it for events using EMIT - even the British Championships.
Is it OK to have a set limited quantity (not sure how you set that quantity) and when they run out, tough.
No - because at the point they run out they cease to be available on loan for competitors with late starts.
Or must there be enough for every competitor that wants one.
That is what the statement says.
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Re: SIAC readiness
If you read the E&CC statement clearly. it says 'should' not 'shall'.
Clubs/organisers can of course do what they want...
Clubs/organisers can of course do what they want...
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Re: SIAC readiness
As with all bits of kit, it is the familiarity that gives you the advantage. If some competitors are relying on being able to hire a SIAC card for the sprint races then they are going to find they are probably quicker using the contact versions. You spend so much effort checking your 'successful' punching and looking for the flashing that you lose the advantage of the system. And you must be sure you have punched successfully otherwise it is DSQ!
If you want to take the racing seriously, and that would be the only reason you would have to complain about other people using SIAC and not you, then you would sensibly buy your own, practise with it at many events, and get the real advantage of the system. And of course, with the ecard on a particular hand you need to learn how to approach a control so you get natural, quick flow through it.
Talk of having SIACs for hire, at the sharp end of the competition, is nonsense. If you want to be competitive, and be in with a chance of a podium place, you will have your own SIAC card.... well used and tested..... yes?
Using them at our current level D informal events (short sprint style courses) has shown that after several sessions significant time savings can be made, and the initial DSQs through unfamiliarity has dropped off.
If you want to take the racing seriously, and that would be the only reason you would have to complain about other people using SIAC and not you, then you would sensibly buy your own, practise with it at many events, and get the real advantage of the system. And of course, with the ecard on a particular hand you need to learn how to approach a control so you get natural, quick flow through it.
Talk of having SIACs for hire, at the sharp end of the competition, is nonsense. If you want to be competitive, and be in with a chance of a podium place, you will have your own SIAC card.... well used and tested..... yes?
Using them at our current level D informal events (short sprint style courses) has shown that after several sessions significant time savings can be made, and the initial DSQs through unfamiliarity has dropped off.
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Re: SIAC readiness
Using them at our current level D informal events (short sprint style courses) has shown that after several sessions significant time savings can be made.
Precisely the reason for not allowing mixed punching at any serious competition. Whilst I don't see a problem letting clubs do what they want at their local level D events (their own members will soon complain if they don't like it), at level C and above for fairness it has to be one or the other.
The point has been made before that contactless punching adds nothing to the actual orienteering element of an event - it is simply a money making exercise for SI.
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Re: SIAC readiness
There are a few things that are a bit more hassle for the organising club / planner:
- the control units need to be specifically turned on when put out - or the first runner at each control won't have the advantage of contactless punching;
- they need to specifically turned off afterwards, to conserve battery power;
- you might need a test control between Check and Start to ensure contactless punching is enabled;
- with a Finish operating in contactless mode you need to be 100% certain that no one will run past the finish prior to completing their course;
- avoid controls adjacent to uncrossable fences;
etc.
But more importantly there is a potentially significant safety downside, given that contactless punching does not record the visit in the control unit. So if you have a missing competitor it is not possible to interrogate the control units to see when and where they last punched. Nor, with a Finish in contactless mode, is it possible to download the Finish unit to see if someone has actually finished but just not downloaded. (So you probably need an additional non-contactless unit situated after the finish to reduce this risk, and you probably have to man it to ensure that everyone punches it, etc).
- the control units need to be specifically turned on when put out - or the first runner at each control won't have the advantage of contactless punching;
- they need to specifically turned off afterwards, to conserve battery power;
- you might need a test control between Check and Start to ensure contactless punching is enabled;
- with a Finish operating in contactless mode you need to be 100% certain that no one will run past the finish prior to completing their course;
- avoid controls adjacent to uncrossable fences;
etc.
But more importantly there is a potentially significant safety downside, given that contactless punching does not record the visit in the control unit. So if you have a missing competitor it is not possible to interrogate the control units to see when and where they last punched. Nor, with a Finish in contactless mode, is it possible to download the Finish unit to see if someone has actually finished but just not downloaded. (So you probably need an additional non-contactless unit situated after the finish to reduce this risk, and you probably have to man it to ensure that everyone punches it, etc).
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Re: SIAC readiness
Snail wrote:There are a few things that are a bit more hassle for the organising club / planner:
- the control units need to be specifically turned on when put out - or the first runner at each control won't have the advantage of contactless punching;
Please please please stop thinking it's ok to do this at the moment.
If you're not turning SI units on before the first runner gets there you are doing it wrong. The time lost by the first runner turning each control on is pretty much equivalent to that gained by using SIAir over conventional SI.
Lazy oraganising is the reason I try to avoid early/first start times!
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
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Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
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Re: SIAC readiness
andy wrote:Lazy oraganising is the reason I try to avoid early/first start times!
Surely the Planner's responsibility not the Organiser's!
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Re: SIAC readiness
cbg wrote:andy wrote:Lazy oraganising is the reason I try to avoid early/first start times!
Surely the Planner's responsibility not the Organiser's!
I'm not picking anyone out in particular, just the organising team which includes the planner.
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
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Re: SIAC readiness
Contactless punching would have conferred a huge advantage had it been enabled for the JK Relays today, given the mass brawls that were going on around the single SI boxes at the first few controls on lap one. If SI wanted a quick way of demonstrating the value of contactless, they could do worse than offering free SIAC hire cards to first-lap runners at a major relay.
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