I've heard that the BOF squad coach has offered hotel accommodation to certain members of universities' top-string relay squads at BUCS in a couple of weeks, and that those not participating in hotel stays may see their World Unis (WUOC) selection chances take a hit.
As far as I can tell, the Sheffield club captain (himself potentially in the running for selection) has informed the likely members of ShUOC's top relay teams (Uni and Hallam) that would likely be involved in this, and the majority have politely declined the offer. This is, as far as I can tell, due to club togetherness (elite or novice, ShUOC do what we can together and have fun at it, developing orienteers of all abilities, nationalities and genders) but also the fun that usually happens at the BUCS social (which is after the BUCS individual, i.e. the main WUOC selection race).
I'm pretty sure that those wishing to perform at BUCS (and beyond) can look after themselves at a BUCS social without BOF imposing as they see fit - the candidates are young adults, of course. I'm also fairly sure that (if they choose to), getting a bit tiddly in Feb (6 months before WUOC, and ~6 weeks before the remaining selection races at the JK/Northern champs for JWOC) is not much of a problem - but again see my previous point re. athletes knowing what is best for them.
I'd also like to point out that at the social for the recent BUCS cross country championships the current European U23 XC champion was seen in a highly inebriated state (by an orienteer, no less), but still selected to the World Unis XC squad (a 3rd place finish at BUCS).
I'd be quite interested in hearing what previous members of GBR WUOC squads (that have gone on to fruitful and full senior squad careers) had to say about BUCS socials (and university life, including post-champs parties in general). I'm pretty sure I've heard stories of hungover EUOC teams smashing ShUOC in the relay, and vis versa!
Maybe the coach in question has only had experience of the post-WUOC/post-JWOC/post-WOC shenanigans detailed elsewhere and thinks that close to important races young orienteers can't make their own decisions.
As far as making university orienteering a happy-go-lucky, welcoming-to-all environment that promotes the sport, this introduces a dangerous precedent of segregating the 'elites' and 'the rest' that Eddie etc. have been working hard to dissuade in our current fight against getting kicked out of BUCS. General consensus is that current ShUOC members from a non-orienteering background would not be happy with this 'segregation', and it would be interesting to hear a take on this from other uni clubs (especially Leeds, a largish club made up mainly of newcomers). When I was a novice student orienteer I wouldn't have been enticed by separation between elite (some of my best friends still, 6 years on) and novice (some of my best friends still, 6 years on).
I know I have historic previous with post-pub posts on here, but this really gets my goat and goes against what I believe in for University orienteering. I think this makes sense but maybe I'm talking bollox and am just a bit lefty.
Must go to bed, got to drive some novices an hour or so to an event tomorrow AM.
(All of this is my own opinion and nothing to do with those mentioned in my post.)
Nic Barber, ShUOC/SPOOK/SYO/proud member of 'the rest'/'friend to some elite'/egalitarian and talker of rubbish
Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
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Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
M21-Lairy
- ba-ba
- diehard
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
If what you've heard is correct Baba,(and I'm not saying it isn't), it's absolutely appalling and well done for highlighting it here. Some combined action needs to be taken here...........
Interested who else replies to your post as I saw who was on-line when I did
Interested who else replies to your post as I saw who was on-line when I did
- RS
- brown
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
Every now and then I think BOF might have turned a corner, then I read something like this...
And then it's clear little has changed.
And then it's clear little has changed.
- BenM
- off string
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
ba-ba wrote:it would be interesting to hear a take on this from other uni clubs (especially Leeds, a largish club made up mainly of newcomers). When I was a novice student orienteer I wouldn't have been enticed by separation between elite (some of my best friends still, 6 years on) and novice (some of my best friends still, 6 years on).
As a member of LUUOC (but not a newcomer), it doesn't really bother me. We will travel, compete, stay and socialise with each other (and with all the other clubs who attend). The absence of a few 'elite' won't make a difference to our experience I wouldn't have thought.
However, as an ex-member of EUOC (who would never have been classed amongst the elite of the club), I would be very disappointed to hear that a section of the club is not, for want of a better phrase, 'mucking in' with the rest. I imagine for beginners this would be additionally off-putting. A class system within a club can rarely end well.
Note that these are my own views and not necessarily those of LUUOC (although the captain is pleased to have been recognised as a club consisting of a large fraction of newcomers) and that I have no clue if the information in ba-ba's post is true.
- RWK
- orange
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
Sounds to me like the British Team coach is doing his/her job well and supporting his elite athletes as best they can, I don't see the problem.
- DIDSCO
- brown
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
BUCS social (or BUSA/BUSF as was - and probably a few other names over the years...) was always a great time - thought I must admit my first one was almost dry for me - I was too worried about the relay to get pissed!
Each to their own - I hope that an orienter letting their hair down after a successful or unsuccessful BUCS individual race will not have this held against them...
Each to their own - I hope that an orienter letting their hair down after a successful or unsuccessful BUCS individual race will not have this held against them...
- Big Jon
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
Sounds to me like the British Team coach is doing his/her job well and supporting his elite athletes as best they can, I don't see the problem.
From an earlier thread:
BUCS O NEEDS YOU
Those that are able (mainly Sheffield, Edinburgh, and to lesser extents Oxford, Cambridge, Durham, Leeds, Bristol) we want as many people - experienced or non-experienced - as they can get!
Whilst the British Team Coach may be doing the best for the elite athletes it is surely divisive and will do nothing to help university orienteering as a whole.
(and shouldn't the title of this thread be "Uni Orienteering: Elitist or INclusive?"
- SJC
- diehard
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
ba-ba wrote:I'm pretty sure that those wishing to perform at BUCS (and beyond) can look after themselves at a BUCS social without BOF imposing as they see fit - the candidates are young adults, of course. I'm also fairly sure that (if they choose to), getting a bit tiddly in Feb (6 months before WUOC, and ~6 weeks before the remaining selection races at the JK/Northern champs for JWOC) is not much of a problem
I seem to recall a thread not so long ago re an elite athelete getting a bit tidly following a major orienteering competition.
- pete.owens
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
pete.owens wrote:ba-ba wrote:I'm pretty sure that those wishing to perform at BUCS (and beyond) can look after themselves at a BUCS social without BOF imposing as they see fit - the candidates are young adults, of course. I'm also fairly sure that (if they choose to), getting a bit tiddly in Feb (6 months before WUOC, and ~6 weeks before the remaining selection races at the JK/Northern champs for JWOC) is not much of a problem
I seem to recall a thread not so long ago re an elite athelete getting a bit tidly following a major orienteering competition.
Yes, I remember that one. Which is probably why the coaches want to avoid a repeat, despite the profile and level of event being quite different here. Unless that is if the students in their "exuberance" decided to do something that drew attention to themselves, like "borrowing" a boat and heading several miles downstream on a fast Scottish river, in the dark (bet that wasn't covered in any safety course or risk assessment )
But I can see a nice win win situation here that students must surely have thought about, we did many years ago. The elites get a room. Club mates share the room, shower, mini bar etc. next morning, all go to breakfast, early, and give the room numbers of other people still in bed.
Hope all enjoy themselves, wherever they sleep.
- DM
- brown
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
Asking some potential team members, who are most likely to be integral members of their respective orienteering clubs, to leave the rest of the team to stay elsewhere is wrong. To be a suucessful elite orienteer you need support from various places, and in return should show loyalty to your club(s) as well as GB. BUCS is the only weekend of the year where loyalty to your university club takes priory.
- housewife
- green
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
And who or what fund is paying for these hotel rooms?
- cbg
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
I was wondering that! I've only stayed in hotels on british orienteering trips when it has been world cups / woc, and no self catering / cheaper accomodation can be found - quite often cause the competitions were held in the middle of nowhere. I can't imagine much has changed in the past 6 months.
- housewife
- green
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
Beyond wrong - who is this coach you people have and why haven't they been sacked and replaced with a Strayan, a Norwegian or someone with a sense of humour.
Its the Uni champs for <insert preferred deity>'s sake ! Why would the national coach be involved. Its not the world champs, its much more important than that.
Running XC (or possibly track) for another institution in my post-ShUOC days at a BUSF/BUSA/UAU... where Paula Radcliffe was competing, she was part of the whole scene, not isolated in some hotel somewhere.
Back in the day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPThVuYGcMw - 13:00 in (don't watch Tim)
Its the Uni champs for <insert preferred deity>'s sake ! Why would the national coach be involved. Its not the world champs, its much more important than that.
Running XC (or possibly track) for another institution in my post-ShUOC days at a BUSF/BUSA/UAU... where Paula Radcliffe was competing, she was part of the whole scene, not isolated in some hotel somewhere.
Back in the day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPThVuYGcMw - 13:00 in (don't watch Tim)
- undy
- string
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
ba-ba wrote:I've heard that ...
As far as I can tell ...
I'm pretty sure that ...
Its good to see that we've established the facts before embarking on another trip into the great world of speculation and misinformation again
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
- andypat
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Re: Uni Orienteering: Elitist or Exclusive?
For the record, the BOF Squad Coach neither said nor did any of the things mentioned above.
Regards,
The BOF Squad Coach.
Regards,
The BOF Squad Coach.
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mharky - team nopesport
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