British Sprints
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
Re: British Sprints
For me, there were too many sets of steps on the Final, but that's just a personal thing.
curro ergo sum
-
King Penguin - addict
- Posts: 1452
- Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:56 pm
- Location: notloB
Re: British Sprints
King Penguin wrote:For me, there were too many sets of steps on the Final, but that's just a personal thing.
Dont remember that many steps, got onto the grass and went diag. Often find grass the side of steps faster than steps...up and down...
ISSOM - Actually unsure that that means. Probably International something, should google it.
- Mr D
- white
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:21 am
Re: British Sprints
International Specification for Sprint Orienteering Maps.
As opposed to:
International Specification for Orienteering Maps (ISOM).
As opposed to:
International Specification for Orienteering Maps (ISOM).
- cbg
- red
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 pm
Re: British Sprints
Mr D wrote:Dont remember that many steps, got onto the grass and went diag. Often find grass the side of steps faster than steps...up and down...
grass down - steps up, is my rule of thumb for UrbanO
hop fat boy, hop!
-
madmike - guru
- Posts: 1703
- Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:36 pm
- Location: Retired in North Yorks
Re: British Sprints
madmike wrote:grass down - steps up, is my rule of thumb for UrbanO
slips up, arse down, is my technique in the forest.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
-
graeme - god
- Posts: 4723
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:04 pm
- Location: struggling with an pɹɐɔ ʇıɯǝ
Re: British Sprints
Agree with Mrs H
Nobody has noted that whilst many here seem to think that taping solves the less obvious forbidden areas conundrum, last year the poor organisers got slated for the massive improvement they made to the qualifying area by adding uncrossable boundaries with obvious tapes. Some people decided to ignore, and even break the tapes, and they then complained that it was stupid
World elite sprint racing generally works because the competitors respect the laws. I have real doubts about the value of sprint racing for the general population because we have a culture of no respect for them.
For goodness sake, Ian Woosnam dq'd himself because he realised that his caddie had put 2 of the same club in his bag. Absolutely not his fault, and no advantage gained, but he was clear about the rules.
Breaking the rules does not imply you cheated, but you failed to complete the prescribed course. Therefore you failed to finish.
Nobody has noted that whilst many here seem to think that taping solves the less obvious forbidden areas conundrum, last year the poor organisers got slated for the massive improvement they made to the qualifying area by adding uncrossable boundaries with obvious tapes. Some people decided to ignore, and even break the tapes, and they then complained that it was stupid
World elite sprint racing generally works because the competitors respect the laws. I have real doubts about the value of sprint racing for the general population because we have a culture of no respect for them.
For goodness sake, Ian Woosnam dq'd himself because he realised that his caddie had put 2 of the same club in his bag. Absolutely not his fault, and no advantage gained, but he was clear about the rules.
Breaking the rules does not imply you cheated, but you failed to complete the prescribed course. Therefore you failed to finish.
- EddieH
- god
- Posts: 2513
- Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:04 pm
Re: British Sprints
BO wrote:Courses must be planned to avoid tempting competitors to take shortcuts through private property and other out-of-bound areas.
Mrs H wrote:You should be apologising for your own ineptitude putting future use of the area in jeopardy not bleating about unfairness and protests.
Presumably Mrs H you're expecting an apology from the organisers?
Personally I don't blame the volunteer organisers, but I hope future organisers and BO can learn from the bleating and protests.
To oblivion and beyond....
-
buzz - addict
- Posts: 1196
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:45 pm
- Location: Sheffield
Re: British Sprints
pete.owens wrote:I can understand the colour-blindness issue, but I'm not sure what colour could be chosen that would be distinct for all competitors. I certainly know of some that have difficulty see the purple overprint in some areas.
Olive Green could be changed subtlety to make it distinguishable from the yellows and greens. I think bumping up the blue component a little works; I'll try to find the references when I have time. Thin slivers would still potentially be unclear to all not just colour-blind people.
Purple is difficult to see on darker colours (grey buildings, dark green thickets, etc) but on most of the map it is clear.
For me, if the OOB isn't obvious on the map or the ground (as in this case) and the courses can't reasonably be planned to avoid crossing it, then I would use purple ISSOM 407 or 409 and tape on the ground.
To oblivion and beyond....
-
buzz - addict
- Posts: 1196
- Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 10:45 pm
- Location: Sheffield
Re: British Sprints
buzz wrote:pete.owens wrote:I can understand the colour-blindness issue, but I'm not sure what colour could be chosen that would be distinct for all competitors. I certainly know of some that have difficulty see the purple overprint in some areas.
Olive Green could be changed subtlety to make it distinguishable from the yellows and greens. I think bumping up the blue component a little works; I'll try to find the references when I have time. Thin slivers would still potentially be unclear to all not just colour-blind people.
Purple is difficult to see on darker colours (grey buildings, dark green thickets, etc) but on most of the map it is clear.
For me, if the OOB isn't obvious on the map or the ground (as in this case) and the courses can't reasonably be planned to avoid crossing it, then I would use purple ISSOM 407 or 409 and tape on the ground.
BUT the rules for the British Sprints say the map should be offset printed and in that case the Forbidden Area is 100% green, 50% as defined in the ISSOM 2007 spec. So changing the colour would open another can of worms.
- MJG
- white
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:25 am
Re: British Sprints
The BOF rule is taken verbatim from the IOF, in fact their "World Class Events".
i.e. "Planners: don't do it" followed immediately by "well, we know you'll have to, so here's how to deal with it".
The IOF sanction officials to tell people to stay out of the OOB, in preference to noting number and DQing. IOF would argue that "threatening to disqualify" is not "tempting".
The controller has to decide whether its acceptable to use the OOB to make the courses interesting. Many people commented that courses were too easy: I think it was OK, but I can't see how to set acceptable courses on that area where its never quicker to go OOB. I reckon the controller's only alternative was to deem the area unsuitable.
IOF wrote:The course must be planned to avoid tempting competitors to take shortcuts through private property and other out-of-bound areas. If there is such a
risk, a referee should be at such locations to prevent possible attempts.
i.e. "Planners: don't do it" followed immediately by "well, we know you'll have to, so here's how to deal with it".
The IOF sanction officials to tell people to stay out of the OOB, in preference to noting number and DQing. IOF would argue that "threatening to disqualify" is not "tempting".
The controller has to decide whether its acceptable to use the OOB to make the courses interesting. Many people commented that courses were too easy: I think it was OK, but I can't see how to set acceptable courses on that area where its never quicker to go OOB. I reckon the controller's only alternative was to deem the area unsuitable.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
-
graeme - god
- Posts: 4723
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:04 pm
- Location: struggling with an pɹɐɔ ʇıɯǝ
Re: British Sprints
graeme wrote:madmike wrote:grass down - steps up, is my rule of thumb for UrbanO
slips up, arse down, is my technique in the forest.
Better than arse over tit though Graeme?
hop fat boy, hop!
-
madmike - guru
- Posts: 1703
- Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:36 pm
- Location: Retired in North Yorks
Re: British Sprints
MJG wrote:
BUT the rules for the British Sprints say the map should be offset printed and ...............
the BO rules for the Sprint say
BO Rules wrote:6.4 Map printing
6.4.1 The map must be printed by an accredited printer.
6.4.2 The British Orienteering map template must be used.
6.4.3 All maps must be offset litho printed unless agreed otherwise.
AFAIK 6.4.3 was agreed otherwise and 6.4.1 and 6.4.2 were adhered to.
- MIE
- green
- Posts: 370
- Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:05 pm
Re: British Sprints
Changing topic a bit: belatedly, I've scanned the descriptions from the Sprints and Middle champs. The one from the Sprints was much easier to read on the run; for the Middles I was sometimes reduced to using a magnifier!
Same number of controls, pieces of paper more or less the same length, but the extra white space at the sprints improved the legibility tremendously. I understand that space can be at a premium for the descriptions on the map itself, but no such constraint applies to the loose descriptions. Please don't squash them up needlessly!
(This is a general request rather than a complaint about the Middle Champs themselves.)
Same number of controls, pieces of paper more or less the same length, but the extra white space at the sprints improved the legibility tremendously. I understand that space can be at a premium for the descriptions on the map itself, but no such constraint applies to the loose descriptions. Please don't squash them up needlessly!
(This is a general request rather than a complaint about the Middle Champs themselves.)
- Attachments
-
- descriptions_Sprint+Middle.jpg (96.1 KiB) Viewed 9254 times
-
Roger - diehard
- Posts: 652
- Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:49 pm
- Location: Oxon
Re: British Sprints
Roger wrote:Changing topic a bit: belatedly, I've scanned the descriptions from the Sprints and Middle champs. The one from the Sprints was much easier to read on the run; for the Middles I was sometimes reduced to using a magnifier!
Same number of controls, pieces of paper more or less the same length, but the extra white space at the sprints improved the legibility tremendously. I understand that space can be at a premium for the descriptions on the map itself, but no such constraint applies to the loose descriptions. Please don't squash them up needlessly!
(This is a general request rather than a complaint about the Middle Champs themselves.)
Totally agree, thank you for highlighting the effect with the 2 description sheets (albeit BMDOC has 2 extra lines of text). A commonly-available description holder can easily (and I mean easily) take a 19x7.5 cm sheet of paper. And there are lines at top and bottom that can be folded over. Planners (and printers?) should not reduce the size of the loose description boxes unnecessarily. I've recently been to an event where the loose description print was SMALLER than that on the map, with no impact on any description holder.
- cbg
- red
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 pm
Re: British Sprints
The size of control description boxes is set out in IOF Control Descriptions 2004 as follows...
For day events I always aim for the minimum of 5mm but for night events use a minimum of 7mm (also use a 6mm+ size for age class events on courses over M/W50). PPen confirms the printed size while re-sizing the control description panel on the course file.
I also note that the Sprint CD's do not follow the guidance set out in BOF rules .......
When printed, the description sheet boxes should be square, with a side dimension of between 5mm and 7mm.
For day events I always aim for the minimum of 5mm but for night events use a minimum of 7mm (also use a 6mm+ size for age class events on courses over M/W50). PPen confirms the printed size while re-sizing the control description panel on the course file.
I also note that the Sprint CD's do not follow the guidance set out in BOF rules .......
25.1 A British Orienteering addition to the above is that the final box on the pictorial version or the final line on the written version must give details of the course closing time.
- SteveE
- white
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:40 pm
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: GML and 71 guests