Just a reminder that the first closing date for Springtime in Shropshire 2015 is Monday 4th May.
The website is here: http://sins.org.uk/
SINS 2015
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Re: SINS 2015
Fabian is busy tonight with people entering SINS on the first closing date. Why not join them?
- babs f
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Re: SINS 2015
One of the recommendations of the event review some years ago was that, other than for Level A events, you should be able to freely select which course you want to enter rather than which class.
So why is it that some events, including SINS, still insist on taking entries by class? (And then automatically allocating them to courses, which rather negates the effect). If for example you want to enter Very Short Green, you have to pretend that you are say a W80, even if in practice you are an M21. This is not really going to encourage less fit or developing orienteers to participate
So why is it that some events, including SINS, still insist on taking entries by class? (And then automatically allocating them to courses, which rather negates the effect). If for example you want to enter Very Short Green, you have to pretend that you are say a W80, even if in practice you are an M21. This is not really going to encourage less fit or developing orienteers to participate
- Snail
- diehard
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Re: SINS 2015
A number of BAOC competitors have entered SINS on a class which is not their age class, so it doesn't seem to be a problem.
Personally, at some events, I have often entered at an age class which is not my own. It doesn't worry me.
An alternative viewpoint from some competitors is that they like to be able to compare themselves with others in their age class, so it helps if people of a particular age are encouraged to enter the same course.
Personally, at some events, I have often entered at an age class which is not my own. It doesn't worry me.
An alternative viewpoint from some competitors is that they like to be able to compare themselves with others in their age class, so it helps if people of a particular age are encouraged to enter the same course.
- babs f
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Re: SINS 2015
General observation rather than detailed figures to prove the fact, but it appears that events run using age classes attract bigger entries than similar events using entries by colour.
Hence if I were the SINS organiser I would go for Age Class entries if I thought that it would attract more people.
Hence if I were the SINS organiser I would go for Age Class entries if I thought that it would attract more people.
- SJC
- diehard
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Re: SINS 2015
An alternative viewpoint from some competitors is that they like to be able to compare themselves with others in their age class, so it helps if people of a particular age are encouraged to enter the same course.
But taking entries by course doesn't prevent that. If the event simply publishes a default course for each class, as SINS has done, then anyone wanting to run against their "usual" age class competition will naturally enter that course.
And it is actually easier to see if you are running against your "usual" competition if you accept and show entries by Course, because for many people not all of that competition is necessarily in the same class.
The worst situation is when, as sometimes happens, club follow up the "class" entry approach by subsequently only giving results only by class. Because then some (say M21s wanting to enter say VSG) are then shown under W80, some under M75S etc. But I am sure SINS will get it right and also provide results by Course
- Snail
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Re: SINS 2015
Snail wrote:The worst situation is when, as sometimes happens, club follow up the "class" entry approach by subsequently only giving results only by class. Because then some (say M21s wanting to enter say VSG) are then shown under W80, some under M75S etc. But I am sure SINS will get it right and also provide results by Course
I'll check with the man in charge of results. I think we normally do.
With quite a few BAOC entries (for instance) in random classes, it would make sense.
- babs f
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Re: SINS 2015
Snail wrote:The worst situation is when, as sometimes happens, club follow up the "class" entry approach by subsequently only giving results only by class.
I think the worst situation is actually when you take entries by both course and class, and then forget that they refer to the same thing and so create a start list with (for instance) "M21" and "Black" competitors starting on the same minute. That was an interesting event.
British Orienteering Director | Opinions expressed on here are entirely my own, and do not represent the views of British Orienteering.
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"If only you were younger and better..."
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Scott - god
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Re: SINS 2015
Good to see that results have been published by course as well as class - but not so good that anyone who decided to run a course other than that which the organisers decided was appropriate for them has been designated "non-competitive"
At a course level they are competitive (and if BOF members should be eligible for ranking points etc).
(But apart from that the weekend was great fun - even if I made some significant mistakes!)
At a course level they are competitive (and if BOF members should be eligible for ranking points etc).
(But apart from that the weekend was great fun - even if I made some significant mistakes!)
- Snail
- diehard
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Re: SINS 2015
Indeed, at two urban events earlier in the month people were marked n/c for being on a course other than the recommended one. (Since corrected after I emailed them)
Apparently this happened because the results files are generated with the relevant urban league in mind, though I'd imagined that would be a secondary process.
And at a third event we were told 'we don't need your BOF number if you aren't on the correct course' until I managed to persuade this wasn't the case.
Seems like, as the buzz phrase goes, there is a case to 'raise awareness' here!
Apparently this happened because the results files are generated with the relevant urban league in mind, though I'd imagined that would be a secondary process.
And at a third event we were told 'we don't need your BOF number if you aren't on the correct course' until I managed to persuade this wasn't the case.
Seems like, as the buzz phrase goes, there is a case to 'raise awareness' here!
- Len
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Re: SINS 2015 - and Urban Leagues
Len wrote:Indeed, at two urban events earlier in the month people were marked n/c for being on a course other than the recommended one. (Since corrected after I emailed them)
Apparently this happened because the results files are generated with the relevant urban league in mind, though I'd imagined that would be a secondary process.
And at a third event we were told 'we don't need your BOF number if you aren't on the correct course' until I managed to persuade this wasn't the case.
Seems like, as the buzz phrase goes, there is a case to 'raise awareness' here!
The upload process for the urban leagues will automatically allocate zero points to anyone who, according to age class, shouldn't score points in a category. E.g. a W35 would score zero on WVet, and would generate a warning message: "Ignored (invalid age class for category)". So no need to declare them as non-comp in the race results.
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Roger - diehard
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Re: SINS 2015
What I am finding is that sometimes the Mens Open and Mens 40+ are combined together at a race. As an M45 who chooses to plod round the Mens Open when the courses are run separately this can lead to confusion as to which category I am running "competitively" in when the results are produced. This can usually be sorted with an e-mail to the league organiser but for a while the league results are inaccurate after they appear in the league tables.
- canol
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Re: SINS 2015
Can you point more specifically to the SinS results showing n/c for people running out of "designated" class? Can't find them so either I'm being dumb or they've been sorted. Ta!
- Marian
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Re: SINS 2015
Day 2, courses 6, 8, 9, 10? There are similar examples on both the other days, assuming the only reason for nc is class/course discrepancy.
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Ant W - light green
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Re: SINS 2015
OK - it really doesn't look to me as if we've systematically non comp'ed anyone not on a "designated" course. Look at course 14 on day 2 for example. There you will see both "comp" and "n/c" results for people who are not M/W 10/12. I know from the EOD on day 1 that some people specifically entered as n/c and we respected that when we did their entries. Pretty sure that applies to the big BAOC contingent using the event to round off a week's training.
I do understand the sentiment behind this concern but I don't think we're at fault here.
I do understand the sentiment behind this concern but I don't think we're at fault here.
- Marian
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