I'm afraid there was some unpleasentness at one of the tempi wtatuons qt lancaster when some orienteers decided to go geocaching in the middle of the tempo course, despite it clearly beinf marked as oob on the event details map.
Not only that, but when told they needed to get off the terrain as there was an event going on answered that it didn't apply to them as they were finishwd there run. My officials tried again to reason with them as they had a competitor who had already walked to the station. Again they refused and went in front of the chair and proceeded to do their geocache business while our piir competitor had to turn their back and wait patiently.
If anyone knows who these geocache iduots were, please let me know.
All orienteers should respect the oob, other competitors in competition and our volunteer officials.
JK
geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
Heavy rant JK! I feel your frustration but...
OK so some of the 2000+ orienteers didn't fully read the 37 page final details booklet (possibly because they weren't competing in the tempo) and didnt know that
A - the competition area was OOB till course close and not (as is the case for 99% of other races) until after your run. I didnt know that myself and neither did at least one of the marshalls who I heard advising a competitor that yes they could get to the tempo through the main sprint area after their run.
B - the tempo area was oob to competitors of any sort not just tempo competitors (but presumably not to "normal" geocachers). I'm going to be pedantic here and note that the final details refers to the "competition area" being OOB till courses close and the TempO area is not marked on the map as "competition area"...
JK - sorry - have much sympathy for you in your attempt to bring trail O to the masses.
But best to treat this as a learning experience and put up some better signage around the trail o area next time with maybe a more complete/specific explanation in the details in the part which normal orienteers would read, rather than looking to lynch some inadvertent holiday orienteers.
OK so some of the 2000+ orienteers didn't fully read the 37 page final details booklet (possibly because they weren't competing in the tempo) and didnt know that
A - the competition area was OOB till course close and not (as is the case for 99% of other races) until after your run. I didnt know that myself and neither did at least one of the marshalls who I heard advising a competitor that yes they could get to the tempo through the main sprint area after their run.
B - the tempo area was oob to competitors of any sort not just tempo competitors (but presumably not to "normal" geocachers). I'm going to be pedantic here and note that the final details refers to the "competition area" being OOB till courses close and the TempO area is not marked on the map as "competition area"...
JK - sorry - have much sympathy for you in your attempt to bring trail O to the masses.
But best to treat this as a learning experience and put up some better signage around the trail o area next time with maybe a more complete/specific explanation in the details in the part which normal orienteers would read, rather than looking to lynch some inadvertent holiday orienteers.
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
- andypat
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
If it was you who spoke to my officuals like that then why didn't you delay going in front of them ubtil they said you could.
Going and messing around between the chair and the kites is the same as forming a rinf around a kite in a sprint abd preventing someone punching.
Had this been done while one of the top conpetitors were competing and they'd complaibed we'd have to have cancelled the whole station.
You are right - there were non orienteers around too and from what i hear, all of them obeyed the simple requests to be quiet, wait and move on as you'd expect fron cobsiderate individuals
The only exception to this civilised behaviour was obe rude group of orienteers who felt it was in theur rights to disrupt our competition and, unlike the other members of the public had been asked to stay out. Note that the oob was marked on the map for all - not hidden away in tempo sections.
Can i suggest that in future you obey the requests of orienteering marshalls even if you think you know better
Going and messing around between the chair and the kites is the same as forming a rinf around a kite in a sprint abd preventing someone punching.
Had this been done while one of the top conpetitors were competing and they'd complaibed we'd have to have cancelled the whole station.
You are right - there were non orienteers around too and from what i hear, all of them obeyed the simple requests to be quiet, wait and move on as you'd expect fron cobsiderate individuals
The only exception to this civilised behaviour was obe rude group of orienteers who felt it was in theur rights to disrupt our competition and, unlike the other members of the public had been asked to stay out. Note that the oob was marked on the map for all - not hidden away in tempo sections.
Can i suggest that in future you obey the requests of orienteering marshalls even if you think you know better
JK
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
Geocachers breaking the idea of geocaching...I was sure it was meant to be done secretly so 'muggles' don't see you!
What a shame this happened but not the first time orienteers have found to be increasingly rude sadly......try standing in a corridor in an event centre waiting for someone (e.g. Jk sprint last year) and you can get dozens of orienteers literally pushing/knocking past you.....so engrossed in their own action of putting control descriptions on or whatever that they don't look where they are going.
We do so much to attract people to our sport but those who don't think about others will only discourage new people.
What a shame this happened but not the first time orienteers have found to be increasingly rude sadly......try standing in a corridor in an event centre waiting for someone (e.g. Jk sprint last year) and you can get dozens of orienteers literally pushing/knocking past you.....so engrossed in their own action of putting control descriptions on or whatever that they don't look where they are going.
We do so much to attract people to our sport but those who don't think about others will only discourage new people.
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
Btw in my previous post in the final sentence i meant "one" when i said "you'
Agreed lucy - presumably they left evidence of their visit inthe cache too.
Jk
Agreed lucy - presumably they left evidence of their visit inthe cache too.
Jk
JK
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
andypat wrote
Well, yes they could, because there was an approved route on a paved path between the TempO and the SprintO and shown on the map in the event programme.
As for the geocachers behaviour, its a perfect example of the old fashioned term 'spoilsport'.
There was another example at the PreO when a control had to be voided when one flag in a cluster was knocked down half way through the competition, changing the answer for a group of competitors until it was replaced.
But that was down to a dog.
and neither did at least one of the marshalls who I heard advising a competitor that yes they could get to the Tempo through the main sprint area after their run.
Well, yes they could, because there was an approved route on a paved path between the TempO and the SprintO and shown on the map in the event programme.
As for the geocachers behaviour, its a perfect example of the old fashioned term 'spoilsport'.
There was another example at the PreO when a control had to be voided when one flag in a cluster was knocked down half way through the competition, changing the answer for a group of competitors until it was replaced.
But that was down to a dog.
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
At the PreO we lost 4 kites in one cluster I believe to a couple of guys with dogs as after replacing them I followed the trails for a bit and found 4 kites, 2 canes and a broken cane near where they'd walked. I kept an eye on it all day as they were the only ones visible from the other side of the dunes and not long after I headed back to check some kites earlier in the course one of the kites vanished. I found it and replaced it but although the first incident was before any Elites came through, the second (which I am guessing was due to the strong breeze) wasn't so some competitors were affected.
So dogs were involved, but I am guessing it was the owners really.
So dogs were involved, but I am guessing it was the owners really.
JK
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
BTW I must apologise for my language earlier ... well my spelling anyway. I'm not used to these mobile phoney things and I broke my reading glasses at the TempO putting controls out so wasn't able to see every letter
JK
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
No it certainly wasn't me! No turfs at the uni☺. As i said i feel your frustration, But I've been on the end of enought rudeness from orienteering officials at events to know there's often two sides to these issues and I felt your initial post Sounded like it could be one if those times. Clearly written in haste at least.
And no to answer kedge the parking official I heard directed someone straight through the top end of the competition area on the incorrect basis that they had finished their run. Mistakes do happen...
And no to answer kedge the parking official I heard directed someone straight through the top end of the competition area on the incorrect basis that they had finished their run. Mistakes do happen...
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
Might be "runningmap", who logged a find of "Campus Trail: The Pixies Letterbox GC4NEW5" on 3rd April 2015: see http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC4N ... -letterbox "Bagged after orienteering round the Uni grounds. Quite keen to get this one as I have a stamp in my own cache in Scotland. TFTC" "runningmap" probably live near to their letterbox cache GCTFR4 Baarnes Loch, which is about 5km south of Hawick, about 30km west of Moffat, just south west of A7, in Scottish borders / Dumfries & Galloway.
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
That was my thought, as only cache log mentioning orienteering!
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
I don't want a witch-hunt here, but let me put forward this question:
What would happen if one of the TempO competitors had headed up into the Sprint terrain and then deliberately disrupted a control on the Elite course even when asked not to by a Marshall?
What action could/would the Sprint organising team take?
What would happen if one of the TempO competitors had headed up into the Sprint terrain and then deliberately disrupted a control on the Elite course even when asked not to by a Marshall?
What action could/would the Sprint organising team take?
JK
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
Sounds really frustrating for organiser and marshals/officials.
At some large events I have been to access to the entire area including car park and any routes to/from assembly have been restricted to those showing a competition number. This meant wearing the competition number on my jumper as it was too cold to walk around in an O shirt only until competition time but meant I and everyone else could be identified. Most of the time competitors had them pinned to their ruck sacs while walking to and from assembly . This can really only work on private access areas such as that owned by MOD.
I don't think the marshals could have done anything more but I would encourage any competitor witnessing abuse of marshals to report it. Regretfully I didn't do this at a recent major event and I still feel guilty that I neither intervened or reported it. Time for us all to play fair and be positively proactive!
At some large events I have been to access to the entire area including car park and any routes to/from assembly have been restricted to those showing a competition number. This meant wearing the competition number on my jumper as it was too cold to walk around in an O shirt only until competition time but meant I and everyone else could be identified. Most of the time competitors had them pinned to their ruck sacs while walking to and from assembly . This can really only work on private access areas such as that owned by MOD.
I don't think the marshals could have done anything more but I would encourage any competitor witnessing abuse of marshals to report it. Regretfully I didn't do this at a recent major event and I still feel guilty that I neither intervened or reported it. Time for us all to play fair and be positively proactive!
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
canol wrote:Sounds really frustrating for organiser and marshals/officials.
Yes it does but
JK wrote:I don't want a witch-hunt here, but ...
really?
JK wrote:If anyone knows who these geocache iduots were, please let me know.
Hmmm
JK wrote:BTW I must apologise for my language earlier
Apology accepted
JK wrote:What would happen if one of the TempO competitors had headed up into the Sprint terrain and then deliberately disrupted a control on the Elite course even when asked not to by a Marshall?
Well that makes a pretty big assumption. Since you havent identified the orienteers in this case, we cant be sure of their intentions, but I think its pretty likely they didnt set out to deliberately disrupt a control on the Tempo course.
As to what could be done? How about a wee photo of the transgressors, or even a polite can I take your names please? From your perspective it sounds like you'd have had a decent case to have them DQ from the sprint. Although as I mentioned above I think there is a second perspective that its not 100% clear in the details that the Tempo area is part of the "competition area" referred to in the final details from which all sprint competitors are disallowed till after courses close. This could have been made clearer in the Sprint details had it been considered vital - which with hindsight it clearly was.
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Re: geocache orienteer idiots at lancaster.
Can I strongly defend myself having been named as one of the possible miscreants ! I'm runningmap and I only did the 1 cache at the University, the one mentioned. I didn't do any others as it was p***ing rain and that was the only one that interested me. If someone would like to return to the caches near the temp-o they'll find a paper log at each one which would identify who these rude people really were. And, yes, caches are supposed to be found without giving the show away to anyone watching.
I should also clarify that the Pixie cache is between the university and the M6, so nowhere near the temp-o.
I should also clarify that the Pixie cache is between the university and the M6, so nowhere near the temp-o.
Last edited by lindseyk on Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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