We have a stated "Zero Tolerance" policy this year which means that you don't have to guess how close is "close enough" for it to be OK and not be a Zero.
The definition is given in the Event Details, here is the appropriate extract:
TempO: "For problems where the correct answer is Zero, the nearest flag is either on a different feature, its position on the correct feature deviates by more than 135º from that described or its distance to the centre of the circle is more than 5m."
For PreO it is the same except 90º and 3m respectively.
Further info: for TempO you'll have a choice of either Bound or Separate maps.
Cheers
JK
JK 2015 TrailO
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Re: JK 2015 TrailO
And for anyone doing the PreO at Haverigg, please remember that TrailO must be done in TOTAL SILENCE - please obey this to respect your fellow competitors some of whom are competing for GB places as this is a selection event.
Conversely, quiet chatter is permitted in the PreO Time Control and TempO queues (as this reduces the risk of over-hearing answers).
Conversely, quiet chatter is permitted in the PreO Time Control and TempO queues (as this reduces the risk of over-hearing answers).
JK
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Re: JK 2015 TrailO
Enjoyed the tempo yesterday - first timer. Harder than I was expecting but for mostly different reasons than I was expecting! The volunteers were all very chipper despite the weather. As a newbie the only downside was I'd left my son in the car expecting to be back in around 20 min or so. Wasn't expecting 90min+ for a "sprint". Appreciate this was entirely due to queues at stations rather than the actual O part but maybe some indication of expected or average duration in the details might be helpful for newbies like me. (I didnt mind the wait per se - mor a family issue )
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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Re: JK 2015 TrailO
Agree re the waiting. It seemed strange how with only 2 min per control you got a backlog at some controls. I hadn't appreciated that time is more important than accuracy at tempo. Ok the good guys have both but it seemed wrong that I got 13 right and was beaten by someone who only got 7 right. If I had answered zero to all rapidly I'd have been much higher up the field. Preferred the traditional trail I today. Much less hanging about and less volunteer intensive
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Re: JK 2015 TrailO
Backlog at fontrol 1 was because more people arrive to start per min than are processed per minute.
Backlog mid course is the same - throughput was slower than were leaving control 1.
Max time was 2 mins so we expected the fastest to be in and out in about 2 mins and the slowest in a liitle over 3.
One issue was that many people hadn't read the rules so were trying to get all right instead of being bolder and making more mistakes (but clearing the controls faster) since there is only 30s penalty - note that those are the rules of the sport, not something we decided.
I thought the marshalls did a great job in at times poor weather, so thanks to them.
Many were doing tempo for the first time and the ones who got the abuse from the geocaching orienteers (see other thread) did not deserve that treatment.
Backlog mid course is the same - throughput was slower than were leaving control 1.
Max time was 2 mins so we expected the fastest to be in and out in about 2 mins and the slowest in a liitle over 3.
One issue was that many people hadn't read the rules so were trying to get all right instead of being bolder and making more mistakes (but clearing the controls faster) since there is only 30s penalty - note that those are the rules of the sport, not something we decided.
I thought the marshalls did a great job in at times poor weather, so thanks to them.
Many were doing tempo for the first time and the ones who got the abuse from the geocaching orienteers (see other thread) did not deserve that treatment.
JK
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Re: JK 2015 TrailO
Tempo results are onthe jk 2015 "home" page (not yet on results)
Preo provisional results were emailed for inclusion last night and will hopefully appear soon.
Preo provisional results were emailed for inclusion last night and will hopefully appear soon.
JK
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Re: JK 2015 TrailO
One of the toughest domestic TrailO (PreO) courses I've ever encountered. Congratulations and thanks to Pete Owens & JK for giving us two days of excellent sport.
For those who want another go at PreO, the entries for BTOC 2015 in the Forest of Dean don't close until the 10th, so you've still time to enter.
For those who want another go at PreO, the entries for BTOC 2015 in the Forest of Dean don't close until the 10th, so you've still time to enter.
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Re: JK 2015 TrailO
We should also give a big thanks to our helpers who came from all over the country (not just the NW) to help out. TempO certainly just can't take place without a minimum number of helpers.
Thanks for all the positive messages about the courses. We note there were some queueing issues at the TempO - any suggestions for improving this would be welcome.
One idea would be to have 2 parallel courses so that you only did 3 stations each and then had a Final station or two for the top few on each course. Of course this would mean
a) People would have to hang around even longer
b) Competitors would have less stations so less fun
c) I'd have had to plan more stations.
I'd anticipate it'd have meant smaller queues though.
JK
Thanks for all the positive messages about the courses. We note there were some queueing issues at the TempO - any suggestions for improving this would be welcome.
One idea would be to have 2 parallel courses so that you only did 3 stations each and then had a Final station or two for the top few on each course. Of course this would mean
a) People would have to hang around even longer
b) Competitors would have less stations so less fun
c) I'd have had to plan more stations.
I'd anticipate it'd have meant smaller queues though.
JK
JK
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Re: JK 2015 TrailO
Queuing on course could be reduced by keeping a reasonable gap between people leaving the first station, either by making it really hard (like Twywell) or making them slow to arrive (also like at Twywell). There will always be queuing, but if it's before the first station, then people can see it and also chat to other competitors.
There is a rush to move people from the start to the first control, but this is actually unnecessary, it's the movement from one control to the next that is important.
At Twywell there was a long walk from the traffic lights to the first station, which slowed things down, but then meant that it was reasonably smooth from there onwards.
At Lancaster I was manning station 3. It was quite easy (quick to answer) so a queue built up before station 4 which was harder and also muddy, so people were slower to sit down.
To keep things smooth we have to consider equalising the time to walk from the waiting area to control, sitting down etc, as well as the 2-3 minutes of actual competition.
Iain
There is a rush to move people from the start to the first control, but this is actually unnecessary, it's the movement from one control to the next that is important.
At Twywell there was a long walk from the traffic lights to the first station, which slowed things down, but then meant that it was reasonably smooth from there onwards.
At Lancaster I was manning station 3. It was quite easy (quick to answer) so a queue built up before station 4 which was harder and also muddy, so people were slower to sit down.
To keep things smooth we have to consider equalising the time to walk from the waiting area to control, sitting down etc, as well as the 2-3 minutes of actual competition.
Iain
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Re: JK 2015 TrailO
JK wrote:BTW did anyone get photos of any of the TempO stations?
surely that's against the rules ..
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Re: JK 2015 TrailO
iainwp wrote:JK wrote:BTW did anyone get photos of any of the TempO stations?
surely that's against the rules ..
Not for the officials or after the courses closed
mobile phones, gps units (of any type), personal stereos and cameras are all officially not allowed of course.
JK
JK
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Re: JK 2015 TrailO
The all zeros technique for the JK2015 TempO would have given 7 right and 17 wrong. Given 3 seconds per control (which is quite a lot to say "zero" and turn the page) that's a total time of 3*24+17*30 = 582 seconds and 31st place. Clearly not a good tactic for someone wanting to win, but as I finished 42nd, it's indicating I need some more TempO training.
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Re: JK 2015 TrailO
iainwp wrote:The all zeros technique for the JK2015 TempO would have given 7 right and 17 wrong. Given 3 seconds per control (which is quite a lot to say "zero" and turn the page) that's a total time of 3*24+17*30 = 582 seconds and 31st place. Clearly not a good tactic for someone wanting to win, but as I finished 42nd, it's indicating I need some more TempO training.
I did the same calculation myself earlier today and came up with 2*24 + 17*30 = 558
Note that an experienced planner shouldn't over-do Zeroes on either PreO or TempO (in my opinion) and you must come to some sort of balance between difficulty of the stations and overall number of Zs.
When the rules changed from 45s to 30s then if the course is hard then you can get reasonable results with that strategy, but you will not win. Better is if the course isn't so hard - mine wasn't so hard ... honest
For instance, compare with "WTOC 2013 F" - the world champs finals at Vuokatti on
http://www.woc2013.fi/kartat/
JK
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Re: JK 2015 TrailO
TempO maps are now uploaded:
http://www.thejk.org.uk/jk2015/index.php?pg=275
There are a couple of tweaks to the solution sheets to do (which need OCAD access) so I'll ask Pete to update them before getting those uploaded, but email me on "jk at bcs.org.uk" if you can't wait.
http://www.thejk.org.uk/jk2015/index.php?pg=275
There are a couple of tweaks to the solution sheets to do (which need OCAD access) so I'll ask Pete to update them before getting those uploaded, but email me on "jk at bcs.org.uk" if you can't wait.
JK
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