Portugal Orienteering Meet
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Portugal Orienteering Meet
Looks like some decent results but not sure I understand the difference between M21E and M21SE. Ali McLeod seems to be doing exceptionally well.
Fac et Spera. Views expressed are not necessarily those of the Scottish 6 Days Assistant Coordinator
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Freefall - addict
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
The SE category is Super Elite (see JK2015 thread http://forum.nopesport.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14451) which talks about World Ranking positions and spreading out high entry numbers to place the cream of the crop in Super Elite, and have an Elite class for the rest.
Ali is doing very well, but his ranking position must have put him outside the limit for Super Elite.
Still there have been some excellent Team GB results on the Middle...
Ali is doing very well, but his ranking position must have put him outside the limit for Super Elite.
Still there have been some excellent Team GB results on the Middle...
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plain lazy - blue
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
Elite are good... Super Elite are gooder
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Gross - god
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
Indeed Alasdair is doing very well. He seems to have a 15 minute margin on Men's Elite going into today's chasing start.
As plain lazy says he is running M21E rather than M21SE because there were more entries to elite than would fit on a single course. If you visit http://ranking.orienteering.org/Ranking and select
Men; FootO Middle/Long; United Kingdom
you will see that Alasdair is probably the British athlete with the biggest discrepancy in their World Ranking.
This subject may get more attention at some splendid races on 4th and 7th August, which I think Freefall knows quite a lot about. There it will determine the start order.
It seem to me that unlike the British ranking system, and whatever its faults, the world ranking system does work that big points can only be gained at big races with top runners. So I'm guessing Ali won't do as well from his win in yesterday's WRE as he would if he had been equally fast (but further down the results) in M21SE.
The big chance for a higher ranking for WOC is the Scandinavian stages of the World Cup, on 3rd and 7th June.
As plain lazy says he is running M21E rather than M21SE because there were more entries to elite than would fit on a single course. If you visit http://ranking.orienteering.org/Ranking and select
Men; FootO Middle/Long; United Kingdom
you will see that Alasdair is probably the British athlete with the biggest discrepancy in their World Ranking.
This subject may get more attention at some splendid races on 4th and 7th August, which I think Freefall knows quite a lot about. There it will determine the start order.
It seem to me that unlike the British ranking system, and whatever its faults, the world ranking system does work that big points can only be gained at big races with top runners. So I'm guessing Ali won't do as well from his win in yesterday's WRE as he would if he had been equally fast (but further down the results) in M21SE.
The big chance for a higher ranking for WOC is the Scandinavian stages of the World Cup, on 3rd and 7th June.
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
Discrepancies in the world ranking list (as with the British list) arise mainly where athletes don't have at least 4 (6) counting events. There are other British athletes with only 3 / 2 / 1 counting scores who would / will be significantly higher with a full complement.
I guess Ali had only two counting events when the split between the SE and E classes was determined - hence why he is on E but Murray is on SE despite a (current) lower ranking
I guess Ali had only two counting events when the split between the SE and E classes was determined - hence why he is on E but Murray is on SE despite a (current) lower ranking
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
I had not been following JK thread so thanks for the explanation. Some encouraging results in Portugal but can we predict any medals at WOC?
Fac et Spera. Views expressed are not necessarily those of the Scottish 6 Days Assistant Coordinator
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Freefall - addict
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
Ali McLeod seems to be doing exceptionally well.
There's an alternative explanation, which I happen to prefer: he's actually very good at orienteering and is maintaining the standards he was setting last year.
afterthought wrote:the world ranking system does work
Curious that you think it works and by implication that you think Ali doesn't deserve to be on superelite. The results seem to suggest otherwise...
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
Freefall wrote:can we predict any medals at WOC?
Our athletes are showing how good they are on sanddune terrain, not sure we've done them any favours by not using it at WOC...
Cat's win at POM is encouraging, but I don't think there anybody in the current team who looks as likely to take a medal as Stan and Yvette did in '99. I reckon any of the others will be delighted to get a top-10 in middle or long. Sprint results are pretty random, so there's some chance there, and it would be disappointing if we weren't on the podium in the relay.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
graeme wrote:afterthought wrote:the world ranking system does work
Curious that you think it works and by implication that you think Ali doesn't deserve to be on superelite. The results seem to suggest otherwise...
It does work but you have to be running big races to keep your scores ticking over, it's the same in a lot of sports: prove you can race against the big boys and you get to do just that. POM organisers aren't going to look through British Results to see if someone is capable or not, just as we wouldn't for the JK. Hopefully all the British team hopefuls can run well in WREs this year, especially those with too few scores, so they can get good start slots at WOC.
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
graeme wrote:afterthought wrote:the world ranking system does work
Curious that you think it works and by implication that you think Ali doesn't deserve to be on superelite. The results seem to suggest otherwise...
Quoting slightly more of my post:
afterthought wrote: whatever its faults, the world ranking system does work that big points can only be gained at big races with top runners.
Sorry.
My sentence was too complex.
The word "faults" is not visible enough.
It allowed a wrong inference.
In fact, an inference 180 degrees out.
WRE rules allow organisers little choice.
Maybe a weakness, rather than a fault.
Maybe for the best.
But some situations happen.
afterthought wrote: a 15 minute margin on Men's Elite going into today's chasing start
Consider Signe Soes at the Europeans last year.
She was coming back from childbirth.
She won her heat of the Middles.
So she has a last start in the final?
No, because the heats were voided.
So she starts in her WRE position.
Which means an early start.
She doesn't even make the GPS list.
She won.
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
andy wrote:It does work ...
For an sufficiently weird definition of "work" maybe. It wasn't able to get the World Champion (Mironova) onto the TV coverage last year in Italy and nor could it get the EOC winner (Soes) in the red group for tracking.
It wasn't exactly rocket science - Soes won the EOC qualifier and Mironova was the highest placed runner for EOC at WOC. No need to look at UK races, Spongey's scores at WREs are high enough that anyone with a rudimentary understanding of statistics* can see he's waay better than many on superelite.
The new WRE has failed pretty much every time its been used - exactly as the people who used to run the system predicted.
* not a criticism of the POM organisers, they're bound by the rules.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
graeme wrote:The new WRE has failed pretty much every time its been used
I see in the WRE only 2 of the top 10 seeds in the Men's made top 10 of the results. And well done the earliest starter to make the top 10 - the guy wearing number 42 (Scott Fraser.)
Report on men's and women's races at
http://news.worldofo.com/2015/02/17/pom-2015-day-3-wre-maps-and-results/
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
From an ordinary punter's point of view, that was a great four days' entertainment. My first experience of POM, as it rarely ties in with school half-term, but we managed it this year, or at least the forest events. Absolutely shattered by day 4, partly the result of not having run more than one day in a row or more than 3km since October, but then so was everybody else around me! One of the most pleasurable multi-days for some time.
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awk - god
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
Been one of the best since it was Mafra O Meet
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Gross - god
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Re: Portugal Orienteering Meet
afterthought wrote:Quoting slightly more of my post:afterthought wrote: whatever its faults, the world ranking system does work that big points can only be gained at big races with top runners.
Glad we're agreed that it doesn't work. But the problem is precisely that big points can only be obtained in "big" races - you don't need top runners, in fact they had to fudge the system to avoid a record score at the North Americans. So if you do something rash like having a baby or getting injured at WOC-time, or focussing on sprints and relays, there's no way to recover your ranking. This matters to anyone who's interested in publicising the sport by getting the best runners on TV.
Sorry to keep banging on about this but it does p*ss me off when my whole WOC planning has to be compromised for TV, when IOF have some stupid rule that means the winner doesn't even get to be on TV.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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