Orienteering is highly unusual in allowing just anyone to compete in top competitions. Sadly it is only an issue occasionally today because of the paucity of people wanting to run the top course. It was not ever so, certainly not in the JK - if you weren't considered good enough you were not allowed to compete in elite and had to make do with another class. Elite2 can scarcely be considered truly elite, but clearly in this case it solves the problem in this case that if dumped onto 21L you end up with 2 intermediate longs instead of middle/long, a very different proposition.
Incidentally Mharky when 3 elite classes were used 2 and 3 were parallel classes (like the old M21L1 and M21L2) not graded as one above the other. In general they were also considerably shrter that the real H21E - so in those days it really was just semantics, and as in other sports if you weren't good enough or the top class you did something less.
Orienteering still wins over the vast majority of sports in that whoever you are you can enter the event.
JK2015
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Re: JK2015
EddieH wrote:Orienteering is highly unusual in allowing just anyone to compete in top competitions.
No it isn't.
In pretty much any individual sport you can compete in any competition: but only if you successfully negotiate a defined set of qualifying events. Previously anyone could onto the JK elite via good performance in UK cup. Before that you had to do well in previous JK/BOC on M21E or L. Before that you needed to do well in Ranking events.
The problem for the JK now is that no qualification route is specified, and inventing one based on races that have already happened would be extremely unfair.
IOF Guidelines for World Ranking Events wrote:World Rankings shall be used to determine how the entry is divided, the best going to the top elite class
orienteering.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Guidelines-for-World-Ranking-Events-2014.pdf
(Yes, it's dated 2014, but there's no expiry date and the previous version is 2011. And yes. the World Ranking system is rubbish)
Note that this is about how to divide entries between two courses, not who to select. It would be absurd to forbid anyone from running a WRE because they hadn't run any WREs recently...
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Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: JK2015
If the numbers were not too large could all M21E entrants run the same middle, starting at 30 or 40 per hour, and the field be split (using JK rules) before the long race with its 3 minute start interval?
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Re: JK2015
afterthought wrote:If the numbers were not too large could all M21E entrants run the same middle, starting at 30 or 40 per hour, and the field be split (using JK rules) before the long race with its 3 minute start interval?
This satisfies most requirements, but issues could include:
* Is that an OK method to decide the running of a WRE (which day 2 is hopefully going to be; the rules quoted above suggest that WR points are used to organise such a split)
* What if one of your top ranked competitors mis-punches on the Middle, (s)he'd then be relegated to the normal rather than super Elite.
* The Middle course would have some serious tracking for the later starters if so many ran it.
The second of the above could be sorted of course buy stating that the top 30 in the WRL automatically get a place for the Classic and the remaining "N" are chosen based on their performance in the Middle.
JK
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Re: JK2015
afterthought wrote:If the numbers were not too large could all M21E entrants run the same middle, starting at 30 or 40 per hour, and the field be split (using JK rules) before the long race with its 3 minute start interval?
Splitting just for the long day is definitely an option, although as JK points out there are issues with using the middle results to split the class for the long.
If you do have to split 21E on the middle day, I am not sure whether there is any reason in principle (WRE rules?) why 21Elite2 couldn't share the 18/20E middle course.
British Orienteering Director | Opinions expressed on here are entirely my own, and do not represent the views of British Orienteering.
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"If only you were younger and better..."
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Scott - god
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JK2015 Relays
A reminder that the first entry date for relay teams (entries by Club Captains please) is this coming Sunday, 15 February.
Currently entry is £24 for junior teams (classes K, L, M & N) and £39 for senior teams. After Sunday it will be £30 for junior and £48 for senior teams.
https://www.sientries.co.uk/event.php?event_id=1819
Currently entry is £24 for junior teams (classes K, L, M & N) and £39 for senior teams. After Sunday it will be £30 for junior and £48 for senior teams.
https://www.sientries.co.uk/event.php?event_id=1819
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Re: JK2015
And if they are not WRE events, then would this apply?
4.4 Special conditions
4.4.1 JK Middle and Long
Unless otherwise agreed with the JK Organiser the total start period for days 2 and 3 will be 4 hours.
The start interval on day 2 (Middle) must be 2 minutes.
The start interval on day 3 (Long) must be 3 minutes.
In the Middle distance race 21s and 18-20s run the same course in a combined start list.
The standard start interval allows for 121 places to be available in the Middle distance race and 81 places to be available in the Long race (day 3). In practice (given relative class sizes) this means that, unless the organisers extend the total
Version 1 January 2014
Appendix A: Event systems
Appendix A British Orienteering Rules of Orienteering 2014 Page 6
start period, the maximum size of the M/W21E field is 81 and that there are 40 guaranteed places on M/W18-20E
Also, why do the M/W18-20E need so many guaranteed places? IMO that dilutes the elite class as half of GB elite runners are not 18-20.
4.4 Special conditions
4.4.1 JK Middle and Long
Unless otherwise agreed with the JK Organiser the total start period for days 2 and 3 will be 4 hours.
The start interval on day 2 (Middle) must be 2 minutes.
The start interval on day 3 (Long) must be 3 minutes.
In the Middle distance race 21s and 18-20s run the same course in a combined start list.
The standard start interval allows for 121 places to be available in the Middle distance race and 81 places to be available in the Long race (day 3). In practice (given relative class sizes) this means that, unless the organisers extend the total
Version 1 January 2014
Appendix A: Event systems
Appendix A British Orienteering Rules of Orienteering 2014 Page 6
start period, the maximum size of the M/W21E field is 81 and that there are 40 guaranteed places on M/W18-20E
Also, why do the M/W18-20E need so many guaranteed places? IMO that dilutes the elite class as half of GB elite runners are not 18-20.
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Re: JK2015
If the numbers were not too large could all M21E entrants run the same middle, starting at 30 or 40 per hour, and the field be split (using JK rules) before the long race with its 3 minute start interval?
If I had read the earlier posts more carefully I would have realised the answer to my question is no.
If the Long is a WRE and it needs to be split it must be split using the WRE Rules, that is using a World Ranking List - and the guidance is one at least 21 days beforehand.
The Portugal O Meeting
http://news.worldofo.com/2015/02/13/portugal-o-meeting-live-this-weekend/
had to split men's elite and commented on the situation. Alasdair McLeod won men's elite today by 6 minutes.
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Re: JK2015
Not surprisingly as he 'should' have been on super elite with his pedigree in UK alone.
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JK2015 WREs
Days 2 and 3 now approved as WREs.
- O lady
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Re: JK2015
So when is it likely that decisions will be published on elite classes? Think it needs to be sooner rather than later - I imagine some of the foreign competitors won't be happy to travel here to be bumped down a class if that's the decison taken. (Mind you, home-grown competitors rightly won't be happy when they've wanted to do med and long courses either).
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Re: JK2015
They can't be expected to decide until they know how many entries they have.
I'd guess that eventually they'll split the men's, but they might get away with shorter start interval. All competitors can look at the WR to see if they qualify for superelite.
One thing they should know is whether there's quarantine. There's a big planning difference between arriving for 9:30 quarantine or a 2pm start. I had to bail out of the last WRE I entered because there was no way to get there in time for quarantine, others didn't notice and got DQed.
I'd guess that eventually they'll split the men's, but they might get away with shorter start interval. All competitors can look at the WR to see if they qualify for superelite.
One thing they should know is whether there's quarantine. There's a big planning difference between arriving for 9:30 quarantine or a 2pm start. I had to bail out of the last WRE I entered because there was no way to get there in time for quarantine, others didn't notice and got DQed.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: JK2015
A group of Irish/English orienteers have booked some apartments in Coniston for the week after the JK from 4th April and as things turn out we have a double studio apartment available (£190 or offers for part of the week). The group have stayed here before although I haven't and it's basic but nice apparently. http://www.thurstonhouseconiston.co.uk/ (flat 7).
Toni
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Re: JK2015
graeme wrote:One thing they should know is whether there's quarantine. There's a big planning difference between arriving for 9:30 quarantine or a 2pm start. I had to bail out of the last WRE I entered because there was no way to get there in time for quarantine, others didn't notice and got DQed.
Graeme - I can confirm that there is no quarantine for any of the JK races.
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Re: JK2015
Swiss & Danish National teams now entered - tasty looking start lists.
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