KITCH> I agree that formal qualifications for coaching orienteering in many respects is bullsh*t, and 'knowing your stuff' may well be enough to work with orienteers that that are older teens/ senior orienteers. However working in the age group 7-17 simply 'knowing your stuff' is not going to maximise your chances of regularly producing future WOC medallists there are just too many other elements that come in to play in the critical physical and mental development phases that must be expertly dealt with.
I'm friends with a well known former World Cup and Premier League footballer. After his career he started working as a football instructer for 10-16 year olds at a specialist football Middle-Secondary school. He 'knows his stuff' and has a series of coaching qualifications but he regularly tells me that the main challenges of his job in producing future top footballers is not when doing the technical sessions, he can do that in his sleep!, its everything else that goes on in these kids/teenagers lives as well as the stages of their physical and mental development that need skill to deal with. An education in coaching which appreciates these elements should be really important when dealing with kids and teenagers.
Jackie Newton
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Re: Jackie Newton
DIDSCO wrote:Buzz> You're a bit harsh using the word 'worst' coaches, less good is more appropriate.
Sorry I thought I was paraphrasing you! Looking back someone else used best/worse. Lets stick with less experienced!
DIDSCO wrote: How old are kids when they join regional squads 13?? You need your best coaches working with 7 year olds and upwards if you want to maximise the chances of success at senior elite level in the future.
I don't think you necessarily need to start orienteering quite that young, but if you are orienteering at that age you need to be learning the right skills.
I have 6 and 9 year old boys who do a bit of orienteering but are mad keen on football. The elder one plays for a local old school FA club, because all his friends do, and all he's learning to do is run around, tackle hard and boot the ball down the pitch. The football equivalent of a white course in my opinion!
To oblivion and beyond....
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buzz - addict
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Re: Jackie Newton
buzz wrote:I don't think you necessarily need to start orienteering quite that young, but if you are orienteering at that age you need to be learning the right skills.
I think children who learn to orienteer very young seem to develop a mental short cut with their visualisation processes. Instead of having to think what the terrain will look like it seems to pop up in their heads like a 3D model - or so I'm told!
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Mrs H - god
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Re: Jackie Newton
Coaching orienteering is a strange activity.
If you are coaching most sports, a lot of the time is spent coaching, and the athlete practising, the physical skills.
For example, talking to my nephew, a county level U17 hockey player, I asked him if he would ever get any higher. His response was no. When I asked why, he said that the guy who was going to go far was obsessed with juggling a hockey ball, playing with it all the time, developing the close handling skills that Ben felt he was never going to master because he didn't want to spend the time.
Orienteering doesn't really have those physical skills to learn. Yes, I know there is a lot to be learnt in terms of running technique and technique in terrain, but these are possibly easier to learn/coach.
The mental skills are the ones that most coaches/athletes have to concentrate on and that is where most of the coaching sessions at camps, weekends and training evening are aimed. The problem is that these are usually not very regular. I'm not sure how many clubs have regular technical training sessions throughout the year. We had a couple of years when we had regular Sat am sessions throughout the winter, but those petered out. But even if there were weekly sessions, these would not be enough for true development. As an athletics coach you would expect to coach at least twice a week, often three times. We just don't have that culture.
In future, the coaching may develop as the current coached juniors go through the ranks and get older. But they will also be expected to help put on the volunteer heavy events that we all like to attend (well, I don't, I prefer the Wed evening events where you wander up, start run, have a chat, maybe go to the pub, then go home - only occasionally will I go to something bigger and then only if the area is going to be worthwhile). So, the early thirties orienteers have to do that stuff for the sport to keep going, and then don't have time/energy to coach.
What is the solution. Maybe less be volunteer heavy events and a lot more, even weekly, small events that people can use to train. One midweek training session + one weekend training event (C/D) would give more coaching/training opportunities.
If you are coaching most sports, a lot of the time is spent coaching, and the athlete practising, the physical skills.
For example, talking to my nephew, a county level U17 hockey player, I asked him if he would ever get any higher. His response was no. When I asked why, he said that the guy who was going to go far was obsessed with juggling a hockey ball, playing with it all the time, developing the close handling skills that Ben felt he was never going to master because he didn't want to spend the time.
Orienteering doesn't really have those physical skills to learn. Yes, I know there is a lot to be learnt in terms of running technique and technique in terrain, but these are possibly easier to learn/coach.
The mental skills are the ones that most coaches/athletes have to concentrate on and that is where most of the coaching sessions at camps, weekends and training evening are aimed. The problem is that these are usually not very regular. I'm not sure how many clubs have regular technical training sessions throughout the year. We had a couple of years when we had regular Sat am sessions throughout the winter, but those petered out. But even if there were weekly sessions, these would not be enough for true development. As an athletics coach you would expect to coach at least twice a week, often three times. We just don't have that culture.
In future, the coaching may develop as the current coached juniors go through the ranks and get older. But they will also be expected to help put on the volunteer heavy events that we all like to attend (well, I don't, I prefer the Wed evening events where you wander up, start run, have a chat, maybe go to the pub, then go home - only occasionally will I go to something bigger and then only if the area is going to be worthwhile). So, the early thirties orienteers have to do that stuff for the sport to keep going, and then don't have time/energy to coach.
What is the solution. Maybe less be volunteer heavy events and a lot more, even weekly, small events that people can use to train. One midweek training session + one weekend training event (C/D) would give more coaching/training opportunities.
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Re: Jackie Newton
Kitch I loved your post, it hit the spot.
I’m not sure what the solution is with coaching juniors through to senior success, but don’t discount nurturing enthusiastic people of university age who try the sport and get hooked. Sarah Rollins and I came from this route.
I started orienteering at 22 when I started my PhD purely cos I fancied trying a new sport. The reason I got hooked and the reason I got pretty good is because I was lucky enough to join a university club (OUOC) where:
- I could learn from other members of the club - we actually talked to each other about orienteering!
- we travelled to events every week, often long distances to different types of terrain
- we organised our own training camps
- and we went on summer tours to cool terrain in Europe
If you manage to hook the right person at the age when they’re starting to make their own decisions about what they want to do with their life, then it can be very fruitful.
If someone has the desire to succeed then they will train hard and get fit, but they need the opportunities to train and race in as many different types of terrain possible to really ‘get’ orienteering. I only really got it when we moved to France for a year and we were lucky enough to be allowed to train with the national team on a completely different style of wacky terrain pretty much every other weekend through the winter (sprint, middle, night, long-o in just over 24 hours).
Aspiring elite athletes also need people around them who understand that different athletes need different support. There are very few ‘complete’ athletes out there; most people have chinks in their armour and it’s the role of the coach to spot the chinks and work with the athlete to patch them.
People coming in at university level have different chinks, but they’re patchable. Just because someone reaches elite standard when they’re a little older doesn’t mean they should be discounted; they’ll be more mature, more self-aware, and certainly still capable of racing hard (check out the number of W35’s near the top of W21E results in the last few years…).
Pippa
I’m not sure what the solution is with coaching juniors through to senior success, but don’t discount nurturing enthusiastic people of university age who try the sport and get hooked. Sarah Rollins and I came from this route.
I started orienteering at 22 when I started my PhD purely cos I fancied trying a new sport. The reason I got hooked and the reason I got pretty good is because I was lucky enough to join a university club (OUOC) where:
- I could learn from other members of the club - we actually talked to each other about orienteering!
- we travelled to events every week, often long distances to different types of terrain
- we organised our own training camps
- and we went on summer tours to cool terrain in Europe
If you manage to hook the right person at the age when they’re starting to make their own decisions about what they want to do with their life, then it can be very fruitful.
If someone has the desire to succeed then they will train hard and get fit, but they need the opportunities to train and race in as many different types of terrain possible to really ‘get’ orienteering. I only really got it when we moved to France for a year and we were lucky enough to be allowed to train with the national team on a completely different style of wacky terrain pretty much every other weekend through the winter (sprint, middle, night, long-o in just over 24 hours).
Aspiring elite athletes also need people around them who understand that different athletes need different support. There are very few ‘complete’ athletes out there; most people have chinks in their armour and it’s the role of the coach to spot the chinks and work with the athlete to patch them.
People coming in at university level have different chinks, but they’re patchable. Just because someone reaches elite standard when they’re a little older doesn’t mean they should be discounted; they’ll be more mature, more self-aware, and certainly still capable of racing hard (check out the number of W35’s near the top of W21E results in the last few years…).
Pippa
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Re: Jackie Newton
If you look at swimming as another sport
First you learn to swim locally and then move onto the local club with probably 2/3 sessions a week at quite a young age. You quickly realise (or your parents do) that to progress you then need to look for a slightly further away club in the area that is more 'competitive' and coaching revolves round 1 or 2 coaches and that will get you to a reasonable standard - probably now doing 5/6 sessions of training a week
Then to move onto regional/national standard you have to look at where the super coaches are and this often involves a lot of travelling or moving home and school. By then you are training 2 times a day for up to 3 hours a day on at least 5 weekdays and also long session on Sunday as an extra. At this stage picking the 'right' coach is vital and all elite swimming revolves around a small select group of coaches - if the coach moves so will that group of excellence
Now orienteering seems to involve anything up to 60/70 'events' in a year for many and never any 'training' or 'coaching' - in fact the concept of training for probably the majority of orienteers is unthinkable. I appreciate most of us are very much older than elite orienteers but even road runners 'train' regularly as preparation for events and they are similar ages to many of us.
Unfortunately I am not convinced that we will ever change this 'attitude' towards training and coaching in the majority of orienteering clubs - it is almost ingrained in the fabric and is our Achilles heel. We are prepared to travel 'silly' distances for an event but not for 'training' or 'coaching'
First you learn to swim locally and then move onto the local club with probably 2/3 sessions a week at quite a young age. You quickly realise (or your parents do) that to progress you then need to look for a slightly further away club in the area that is more 'competitive' and coaching revolves round 1 or 2 coaches and that will get you to a reasonable standard - probably now doing 5/6 sessions of training a week
Then to move onto regional/national standard you have to look at where the super coaches are and this often involves a lot of travelling or moving home and school. By then you are training 2 times a day for up to 3 hours a day on at least 5 weekdays and also long session on Sunday as an extra. At this stage picking the 'right' coach is vital and all elite swimming revolves around a small select group of coaches - if the coach moves so will that group of excellence
Now orienteering seems to involve anything up to 60/70 'events' in a year for many and never any 'training' or 'coaching' - in fact the concept of training for probably the majority of orienteers is unthinkable. I appreciate most of us are very much older than elite orienteers but even road runners 'train' regularly as preparation for events and they are similar ages to many of us.
Unfortunately I am not convinced that we will ever change this 'attitude' towards training and coaching in the majority of orienteering clubs - it is almost ingrained in the fabric and is our Achilles heel. We are prepared to travel 'silly' distances for an event but not for 'training' or 'coaching'
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Re: Jackie Newton
graeme/Pippa wrote:I started orienteering at 22 when I started my PhD purely cos I fancied trying a new sport. The reason I got hooked and the reason I got pretty good is because I was lucky enough to join a university club (OUOC) where:
- I could learn from other members of the club - we actually talked to each other about orienteering!
- we travelled to events every week, often long distances to different types of terrain
- we organised our own training camps
- and we went on summer tours to cool terrain in Europe
Me too. We didn't have a coach either.
Last edited by graeme on Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: Jackie Newton
Barny wrote:Now orienteering seems to involve anything up to 60/70 'events' in a year for many and never any 'training' or 'coaching' - in fact the concept of training for probably the majority of orienteers is unthinkable. I appreciate most of us are very much older than elite orienteers but even road runners 'train' regularly as preparation for events and they are similar ages to many of us.
Unfortunately I am not convinced that we will ever change this 'attitude' towards training and coaching in the majority of orienteering clubs - it is almost ingrained in the fabric and is our Achilles heel. We are prepared to travel 'silly' distances for an event but not for 'training' or 'coaching'
You're right that a lot of people do a lot of events, and I suspect that a fair number compete equally at all of them. But for many of us, these events are simply part of the training - the one opportunity we get to orienteer an unseen course during the week. Just because I go to loads of events does not mean that I'm just 'competing' at all of them. Far from it. We travel big distances simply because we know the terrain so well closer to home - so it's good for some training but of little use for other.
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awk - god
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Re: Jackie Newton
Time to be constructive. Here's a 20 year old article written by former top Swedish elite orienteer. The principles of this were drilled into me by my Swedish coach when I first moved here and I think the approach is still relevent today. Think it could be good for Jackie, coaches, young seniors and juniors to read and apply these principles.
Systematic Orienteering
By Klas Karlsson
This is an electronic version of a paper I wrote in the fall of 1994. It is a good description of my philosophy of orienteering. It is aimed at juniors, but I think everyone can benefit from reading about how others think about orienteering.
Introduction
I wrote this to help you think about your orienteering. It is aimed at juniors who are moving up to the senior classes. Everyone knows it is a big step to take. I wrote this to help juniors improve and to use my own experiences to describe and think about the problems I have struggled with.
First, I thought about my strengths and weaknesses.
I quickly realized I don’t have any problems with running at the level I aspire to (assuming my physical training is going as it should). Of course I can be better, but it is not the highest priority. I have had physical problems during my first years as a senior, but that is another story...
The problem I need to work on is that I often feel stressed in the forest. I know how good the others orienteer -- how little they miss. As a junior my orienteering was not as secure and reliable as it has to be at the senior level. Just getting older won’t help that. So, how do I solve the problem?
First, I analyzed what the differences were between races that have gone well and those that have gone poorly.
When races have gone well: (1) I felt secure and had self-confidence or (2) I had the right attitude. (By the right attitude, I mean I was thinking -- “I am not going to make any mistakes no matter how much time it takes,” or “I am not in good shape, but I am going to keep up by making no mistakes.”).
What these situations have in common is that I have really been “thinking orienteering.” In the first case, I felt -- “the only thing that can hold me back is if I make mistakes...if I don’t make mistakes I will succeed.” In the second case, I have always been concentrating on not losing any more time than necessary.
I concluded that I need to copy the technique I used during my good races. This technique -- which I called “thinking orienteering” above -- is what I call Systematic Orienteering.
Goal, Strategy, Realization
These words will help to think about orienteering. It might seem a bit theoretical in the beginning. But, I think it is helps to make it clear what you should do and what it takes to succeed.
Goal:
The goal is to run an orienteering course as fast as possible and to do your best when you choose to.
Strategy
The strategy to reach the goal is being systematic. I do this by planning and simplifying. I will come back to what that means.
Realization
How will I succeed with planning and simplifying? Will I be able to do that? When can I do that? When won’t I be able to do that? Can I train my ability to plan and simplify? These are the hard problems and questions that are very individual.
I am going to describe what I mean by “systematic orienteering,” why I believe it is the way to go, and how you can train orienteer systematically.
Systematic Orienteering
What do you do when you orienteer? A course is built of legs. Each leg is a problem. Orienteering involves running a series of legs faster than your competitors; in other words, solving a series of problems better than the competition. It is common to think of each leg alone and try to run faster than the others on each leg. I don’t think that you need to do that! The winner isn’t the one who wins the most legs. Rather it is the one with the least slow legs.
In training and races it is interesting to see how hard it is to have the fastest time on a leg, but how easy it is to be among the fastest. Test this sometime when there are a lot of good orienteers around to compare split times with. Pick a few legs where you try as hard as you can and some where you take a bit of extra time to be careful. The result will be that when you try as hard as you can you will win some legs and have some bad legs. When you take a bit of extra time you might not win any legs, but you will never be far behind.
Every leg can be thought of as a trap to avoid. Run the legs fast, but systematically. Being systematic will guarantee you don’t make mistakes.
What is systematic orienteering? It is planning and completing each leg the way you would if you were sitting at home at the kitchen table looking at the map. Orienteering is really easy when you are sitting at the kitchen table! The difference between the kitchen and the forest is that in the forest you are tired and your thinking is as sharp as a butter knife. To solve problems in this condition it is important to have a tactic, strategy, or whatever you want to call it, to be able to easily concentrate on what is important. This is what I call “systematic orienteering.”
Systematic orienteering should begin with the problem. Orienteering problems can be split into two parts -- route choice and control taking.
1. Route Choice
Experience and practice teaches you to be able to see which route is fastest. It usually isn’t a big problem at the kitchen table, but during a race....A correct route choice is not made in an instant. To be able to make a good route choice it is important that you are not completely worn out when you make your choice. In the easy-running parts of a course, you don’t lose much if you don’t run as hard as you can. You can take a look at more than one leg ahead. As a rule you should always know how you will do the next leg before you punch. This will reduce stress and you get a “flow” in your orienteering. Less stress also helps you keep going longer and an elite course is really long!
2. Taking Controls
Simplify! By simplifying and enlarging controls you are safer, have better “flow” and have more time to think clearly and be systematic.
Simplifying means looking for a larger feature that is easy to find and near the control. You can think of a control as a “big control” and the real control. The big control is nearly impossible to miss. Once you find the big control it should be nearly impossible to miss the real control. A control that looks difficult and makes you feel uncertain can often be simplified by taking it the right way. By feeling safer the whole way to the control, you don’t feel stressed and you keep your sharpness and “flow.”
In summary, systematic orienteering means taking a few extra seconds to ensure a better route choice and safer control taking leads to increased “flow” and better energy.
Do I have time to be systematic?
A big problem when you first move up to the senior classes is that your self-confidence takes a hit. It is tough because as a junior you may have been used to always being on the top and the center of attention. When your self-confidence goes down, you feel stressed in the forest. Maybe you take some chances; thinking you don’t have time to take an extra look at the map. I’ll try to show you that you actually do have time to take one or two looks at the map.
The objective of competitive orienteering is to be faster than the others around the whole course.
Faster than the others....There are two ways to be faster than the others:
(a) You run faster than the others;
(b) You always make the right route choices and don’t miss anything;
(a) The others run slower;
(b) The others make worse route choices and also miss some controls.
It is important to think about it this way. We often hear that we should “run our own race” and not think about how others run. I’m not saying this is wrong, but I think that by including others in the picture (after all, they are our competition) it is easier to understand the reason why you should do something in a particular way. If you know that your competition is going to make mistakes, you know that by avoiding mistakes you will have extra time. So you can orienteer more carefully than your competitors who are missing.
1. (a) You run faster than the others. Only one person in each race can run faster than the rest. The differences in speed are small; so there is not much time to be gained here. It is, of course, important that you do not run much worse than the others, but it isn’t in running fast that you’ll find your biggest advantage.
2. (a) The others run slower. This just isn’t right. The others run just as fast, or nearly so, as you do.
1. (b) You always make the right route choices and don’t miss anything. This is where you can make big gains. To always make the right route choice -- is this possible? No. But, you can improve your average. To never miss any controls -- is this possible? This is definitely possible and is the basis for having better times than the competition.
2. (b) The others make worse route choices and also miss some controls. This is an important area that is often ignored because you can not affect it. As I wrote above, you can’t hope that the competition will make bad route choices and miss controls. But, you can work on the assumption that they will. I would like to see how many people can say they always take good routes and do not miss anything. This happens once in a while, but is not very common. Don’t misunderstand me -- I don’t think that since every else will take bad routes and miss controls, I can also. I think that since most others miss and take some bad routes, I have some “extra time” compared to if they didn’t.
This is a good way of thinking because it lets you avoid the most common stress that I think affects younger seniors.
I think that I have to DARE to take the right roue and not make any mistakes. You do that by taking a few extra seconds at certain times during an orienteering race. Taking this extra time can feel like a waste of precious time, but it is not.
I have often felt stressed when I’ve “gotten stuck” (e.g., going up a slippery steep hillside). It feels like time is running away and I am standing still. But, I am convinced that if you had a film of this you would hardly notice the loss of time.
I think the “experience” of time is not the same as actual time. The seconds you sacrifice for thinking may feel like a lot of time, but actually they are just seconds.
How Do You Learn Systematic Orienteering?
To learn to orienteer systematically is not hard. Just follow these simple rules:
Plan -- know your route choice one leg ahead.
Simplify -- take controls the simplest way.
The difficulty is not learning to follow these rules, but to be able to follow the rules always and quickly. It is important that you believe in your strategy before you begin to follow it. Believe in the concept of systematic orienteering. Not because it is the only way, but because it is a way to orienteer that is relatively simple. The most important thing is not that you buy into my concept, but that you have one. If there is a part that doesn’t fit with your beliefs and experiences, just change it. You have to believe in what you do. I believe in what I do. If you have trouble coming up with your own philosophy, buy someone else’s and change it.
Problems and Risks
Systematic orienteering takes more time! The advantage is not that systematic orienteering means going faster than others. The advantage is that you are more careful at the cost of a few seconds. You win through avoiding mistakes. In the long run, this leads to faster times for the entire course (but perhaps not the fastest split times).
If you thoroughly implement systematic orienteering you will feel like you are going slow. In the beginning, your race times will also go down. To follow the rules described above, you have to slow down, perhaps stand still. You will feel time flowing away. It is very important that you are prepared for that feeling. When it happens you will be ready to accept it.
You will feel that you could orienteer much faster with your old technique. And that is true. But, you couldn’t orienteer more safely with your old technique. To hold your own as a senior you have to have that safety. The speed you can run and at the same time systematically solve orienteering problems will soon increase. The time it takes to be safe will be less-and-less and eventually it will be negligible.
One problem is that there are a lot of races and everyone hates to be beat...motivation might not be the highest. It is tough to learn a new technique even if it is not very different from the old one. It doesn’t make it any easier that in the beginning you might get worse results. In those situations you have to keep your belief in systematic orienteering.
I remember how I thought when I was a junior (it wasn’t so long ago...). I thought that the most fun was to beat my competitors. I wanted to run times that no one else could run. Sometimes I succeeded, but often I was a bit down. In those cases I had big mistakes to describe afterwards, just to show that I was the best after all. I was satisfied; if I hadn’t make those big mistakes I would have won easily.
Training Systematic Orienteering
Obviously, systematic orienteering is not something that happens immediately, it has to be trained.
How to train systematic orienteering?
There is a lot to keep track of, so take it one step at a time. Begin by practicing on a short course and by being totally concentrated. Do everything just right and let it take as much time as necessary, but don’t be lazy. This emphasis is very important. Plan a leg ahead. It is going to feel like it is going VERY slowly, but just let that happen.
Then try to practice systematic orienteering a little bit more each time you do technique training. If you feel unmotivated and unconcentrated just use your old technique or decide that there are 3-4 controls that you will practice systematic orienteering and run the rest of the training as usual. Before you start you should decide exactly what you will practice. Don’t get down if it goes badly and you make mistakes. The most important thing is that you practiced what you decided to practice.
During a technique training when I practiced systematic orienteering it began well. Planning worked well and my mental state was good. After a few kilometers I made a big mistake. I had extended the control and should just go in an punch. But, I got a bit off. The forest was dense. I lost a few minutes. The rest of the course went well. After the training I was mad that I had missed the control and was not satisfied although what I’d planned to practice -- systematic orienteering -- went well. This is the sort of situation where it is important to decide beforehand what to practice. And then after the training I should think about how the training went by thinking about how well I did what I’d planned to practice.
To make a few mistakes when I’m concentrating on practicing systematic orienteering is not a big deal. The more you practice systematic orienteering the less thought it takes and you will start to miss less.
When to train systematic orienteering?
It is very important that you begin to learn systematic orienteering without the stress of competition. You can, for example, skip some less important competitions and instead run the direct course or just go to a technique training. Don’t begin to use systematic orienteering in important competitions too soon. There is a risk you’d lose your self confidence if you used systematic orienteering before you were really comfortable with it. If you do use your new technique in competitions, be prepared to have a bit slower time than normal. It is not a big problem if someone else has a time that you couldn’t match even if you take away all of your misses.
During the time it takes to learn you will surely fall back on your old technique. Be prepared for that to happen. Don’t be upset or feel powerless. Motivation and concentration vary and, in the beginning, your success with a new technique will vary also.
The Junior Syndrome
“The junior syndrome” is a term for what often happens, especially among boys, when they move up to the senior class. Things don’t go well! I think there are two causes: physical limits and bad technique.
Physical limits: It takes a few years of hard training to be able to run the long courses that are normal in the senior class. The solution: keep training and have patience.
Bad technique: Poor (sloppy) technique isn’t penalized as much in the junior classes where the differences in running abilities are relatively great. A “junior star” can finish in the top 4-5 even with a bad race. In the senior class the same race would result in 40th place. “Juniors” gets stressed, run harder, get more tired, and make more mistakes. They feel worse than when they were juniors.
What to do? Lower your expectations of top results. Compare yourself to your old competitors. It is interesting to see that it is often those who were a bit behind as juniors who have the best success when they begin as seniors. Those who were aggressive with their technique -- and won junior classes by several minutes -- rarely have good results during their first years as seniors. They don’t have good systematic orienteering!
And finally, learning takes time...
Summary
Systematic orienteering: Take a few extra seconds to pick better routes and select safer ways to take the controls, which leads to better “flow” and better energy.
Reduce stress.
Lower expectations (in the beginning).
Plan.
Simplify.
Think about orienteering.
Have fun.
You have time to think a bit more.
Systematic Orienteering
By Klas Karlsson
This is an electronic version of a paper I wrote in the fall of 1994. It is a good description of my philosophy of orienteering. It is aimed at juniors, but I think everyone can benefit from reading about how others think about orienteering.
Introduction
I wrote this to help you think about your orienteering. It is aimed at juniors who are moving up to the senior classes. Everyone knows it is a big step to take. I wrote this to help juniors improve and to use my own experiences to describe and think about the problems I have struggled with.
First, I thought about my strengths and weaknesses.
I quickly realized I don’t have any problems with running at the level I aspire to (assuming my physical training is going as it should). Of course I can be better, but it is not the highest priority. I have had physical problems during my first years as a senior, but that is another story...
The problem I need to work on is that I often feel stressed in the forest. I know how good the others orienteer -- how little they miss. As a junior my orienteering was not as secure and reliable as it has to be at the senior level. Just getting older won’t help that. So, how do I solve the problem?
First, I analyzed what the differences were between races that have gone well and those that have gone poorly.
When races have gone well: (1) I felt secure and had self-confidence or (2) I had the right attitude. (By the right attitude, I mean I was thinking -- “I am not going to make any mistakes no matter how much time it takes,” or “I am not in good shape, but I am going to keep up by making no mistakes.”).
What these situations have in common is that I have really been “thinking orienteering.” In the first case, I felt -- “the only thing that can hold me back is if I make mistakes...if I don’t make mistakes I will succeed.” In the second case, I have always been concentrating on not losing any more time than necessary.
I concluded that I need to copy the technique I used during my good races. This technique -- which I called “thinking orienteering” above -- is what I call Systematic Orienteering.
Goal, Strategy, Realization
These words will help to think about orienteering. It might seem a bit theoretical in the beginning. But, I think it is helps to make it clear what you should do and what it takes to succeed.
Goal:
The goal is to run an orienteering course as fast as possible and to do your best when you choose to.
Strategy
The strategy to reach the goal is being systematic. I do this by planning and simplifying. I will come back to what that means.
Realization
How will I succeed with planning and simplifying? Will I be able to do that? When can I do that? When won’t I be able to do that? Can I train my ability to plan and simplify? These are the hard problems and questions that are very individual.
I am going to describe what I mean by “systematic orienteering,” why I believe it is the way to go, and how you can train orienteer systematically.
Systematic Orienteering
What do you do when you orienteer? A course is built of legs. Each leg is a problem. Orienteering involves running a series of legs faster than your competitors; in other words, solving a series of problems better than the competition. It is common to think of each leg alone and try to run faster than the others on each leg. I don’t think that you need to do that! The winner isn’t the one who wins the most legs. Rather it is the one with the least slow legs.
In training and races it is interesting to see how hard it is to have the fastest time on a leg, but how easy it is to be among the fastest. Test this sometime when there are a lot of good orienteers around to compare split times with. Pick a few legs where you try as hard as you can and some where you take a bit of extra time to be careful. The result will be that when you try as hard as you can you will win some legs and have some bad legs. When you take a bit of extra time you might not win any legs, but you will never be far behind.
Every leg can be thought of as a trap to avoid. Run the legs fast, but systematically. Being systematic will guarantee you don’t make mistakes.
What is systematic orienteering? It is planning and completing each leg the way you would if you were sitting at home at the kitchen table looking at the map. Orienteering is really easy when you are sitting at the kitchen table! The difference between the kitchen and the forest is that in the forest you are tired and your thinking is as sharp as a butter knife. To solve problems in this condition it is important to have a tactic, strategy, or whatever you want to call it, to be able to easily concentrate on what is important. This is what I call “systematic orienteering.”
Systematic orienteering should begin with the problem. Orienteering problems can be split into two parts -- route choice and control taking.
1. Route Choice
Experience and practice teaches you to be able to see which route is fastest. It usually isn’t a big problem at the kitchen table, but during a race....A correct route choice is not made in an instant. To be able to make a good route choice it is important that you are not completely worn out when you make your choice. In the easy-running parts of a course, you don’t lose much if you don’t run as hard as you can. You can take a look at more than one leg ahead. As a rule you should always know how you will do the next leg before you punch. This will reduce stress and you get a “flow” in your orienteering. Less stress also helps you keep going longer and an elite course is really long!
2. Taking Controls
Simplify! By simplifying and enlarging controls you are safer, have better “flow” and have more time to think clearly and be systematic.
Simplifying means looking for a larger feature that is easy to find and near the control. You can think of a control as a “big control” and the real control. The big control is nearly impossible to miss. Once you find the big control it should be nearly impossible to miss the real control. A control that looks difficult and makes you feel uncertain can often be simplified by taking it the right way. By feeling safer the whole way to the control, you don’t feel stressed and you keep your sharpness and “flow.”
In summary, systematic orienteering means taking a few extra seconds to ensure a better route choice and safer control taking leads to increased “flow” and better energy.
Do I have time to be systematic?
A big problem when you first move up to the senior classes is that your self-confidence takes a hit. It is tough because as a junior you may have been used to always being on the top and the center of attention. When your self-confidence goes down, you feel stressed in the forest. Maybe you take some chances; thinking you don’t have time to take an extra look at the map. I’ll try to show you that you actually do have time to take one or two looks at the map.
The objective of competitive orienteering is to be faster than the others around the whole course.
Faster than the others....There are two ways to be faster than the others:
(a) You run faster than the others;
(b) You always make the right route choices and don’t miss anything;
(a) The others run slower;
(b) The others make worse route choices and also miss some controls.
It is important to think about it this way. We often hear that we should “run our own race” and not think about how others run. I’m not saying this is wrong, but I think that by including others in the picture (after all, they are our competition) it is easier to understand the reason why you should do something in a particular way. If you know that your competition is going to make mistakes, you know that by avoiding mistakes you will have extra time. So you can orienteer more carefully than your competitors who are missing.
1. (a) You run faster than the others. Only one person in each race can run faster than the rest. The differences in speed are small; so there is not much time to be gained here. It is, of course, important that you do not run much worse than the others, but it isn’t in running fast that you’ll find your biggest advantage.
2. (a) The others run slower. This just isn’t right. The others run just as fast, or nearly so, as you do.
1. (b) You always make the right route choices and don’t miss anything. This is where you can make big gains. To always make the right route choice -- is this possible? No. But, you can improve your average. To never miss any controls -- is this possible? This is definitely possible and is the basis for having better times than the competition.
2. (b) The others make worse route choices and also miss some controls. This is an important area that is often ignored because you can not affect it. As I wrote above, you can’t hope that the competition will make bad route choices and miss controls. But, you can work on the assumption that they will. I would like to see how many people can say they always take good routes and do not miss anything. This happens once in a while, but is not very common. Don’t misunderstand me -- I don’t think that since every else will take bad routes and miss controls, I can also. I think that since most others miss and take some bad routes, I have some “extra time” compared to if they didn’t.
This is a good way of thinking because it lets you avoid the most common stress that I think affects younger seniors.
I think that I have to DARE to take the right roue and not make any mistakes. You do that by taking a few extra seconds at certain times during an orienteering race. Taking this extra time can feel like a waste of precious time, but it is not.
I have often felt stressed when I’ve “gotten stuck” (e.g., going up a slippery steep hillside). It feels like time is running away and I am standing still. But, I am convinced that if you had a film of this you would hardly notice the loss of time.
I think the “experience” of time is not the same as actual time. The seconds you sacrifice for thinking may feel like a lot of time, but actually they are just seconds.
How Do You Learn Systematic Orienteering?
To learn to orienteer systematically is not hard. Just follow these simple rules:
Plan -- know your route choice one leg ahead.
Simplify -- take controls the simplest way.
The difficulty is not learning to follow these rules, but to be able to follow the rules always and quickly. It is important that you believe in your strategy before you begin to follow it. Believe in the concept of systematic orienteering. Not because it is the only way, but because it is a way to orienteer that is relatively simple. The most important thing is not that you buy into my concept, but that you have one. If there is a part that doesn’t fit with your beliefs and experiences, just change it. You have to believe in what you do. I believe in what I do. If you have trouble coming up with your own philosophy, buy someone else’s and change it.
Problems and Risks
Systematic orienteering takes more time! The advantage is not that systematic orienteering means going faster than others. The advantage is that you are more careful at the cost of a few seconds. You win through avoiding mistakes. In the long run, this leads to faster times for the entire course (but perhaps not the fastest split times).
If you thoroughly implement systematic orienteering you will feel like you are going slow. In the beginning, your race times will also go down. To follow the rules described above, you have to slow down, perhaps stand still. You will feel time flowing away. It is very important that you are prepared for that feeling. When it happens you will be ready to accept it.
You will feel that you could orienteer much faster with your old technique. And that is true. But, you couldn’t orienteer more safely with your old technique. To hold your own as a senior you have to have that safety. The speed you can run and at the same time systematically solve orienteering problems will soon increase. The time it takes to be safe will be less-and-less and eventually it will be negligible.
One problem is that there are a lot of races and everyone hates to be beat...motivation might not be the highest. It is tough to learn a new technique even if it is not very different from the old one. It doesn’t make it any easier that in the beginning you might get worse results. In those situations you have to keep your belief in systematic orienteering.
I remember how I thought when I was a junior (it wasn’t so long ago...). I thought that the most fun was to beat my competitors. I wanted to run times that no one else could run. Sometimes I succeeded, but often I was a bit down. In those cases I had big mistakes to describe afterwards, just to show that I was the best after all. I was satisfied; if I hadn’t make those big mistakes I would have won easily.
Training Systematic Orienteering
Obviously, systematic orienteering is not something that happens immediately, it has to be trained.
How to train systematic orienteering?
There is a lot to keep track of, so take it one step at a time. Begin by practicing on a short course and by being totally concentrated. Do everything just right and let it take as much time as necessary, but don’t be lazy. This emphasis is very important. Plan a leg ahead. It is going to feel like it is going VERY slowly, but just let that happen.
Then try to practice systematic orienteering a little bit more each time you do technique training. If you feel unmotivated and unconcentrated just use your old technique or decide that there are 3-4 controls that you will practice systematic orienteering and run the rest of the training as usual. Before you start you should decide exactly what you will practice. Don’t get down if it goes badly and you make mistakes. The most important thing is that you practiced what you decided to practice.
During a technique training when I practiced systematic orienteering it began well. Planning worked well and my mental state was good. After a few kilometers I made a big mistake. I had extended the control and should just go in an punch. But, I got a bit off. The forest was dense. I lost a few minutes. The rest of the course went well. After the training I was mad that I had missed the control and was not satisfied although what I’d planned to practice -- systematic orienteering -- went well. This is the sort of situation where it is important to decide beforehand what to practice. And then after the training I should think about how the training went by thinking about how well I did what I’d planned to practice.
To make a few mistakes when I’m concentrating on practicing systematic orienteering is not a big deal. The more you practice systematic orienteering the less thought it takes and you will start to miss less.
When to train systematic orienteering?
It is very important that you begin to learn systematic orienteering without the stress of competition. You can, for example, skip some less important competitions and instead run the direct course or just go to a technique training. Don’t begin to use systematic orienteering in important competitions too soon. There is a risk you’d lose your self confidence if you used systematic orienteering before you were really comfortable with it. If you do use your new technique in competitions, be prepared to have a bit slower time than normal. It is not a big problem if someone else has a time that you couldn’t match even if you take away all of your misses.
During the time it takes to learn you will surely fall back on your old technique. Be prepared for that to happen. Don’t be upset or feel powerless. Motivation and concentration vary and, in the beginning, your success with a new technique will vary also.
The Junior Syndrome
“The junior syndrome” is a term for what often happens, especially among boys, when they move up to the senior class. Things don’t go well! I think there are two causes: physical limits and bad technique.
Physical limits: It takes a few years of hard training to be able to run the long courses that are normal in the senior class. The solution: keep training and have patience.
Bad technique: Poor (sloppy) technique isn’t penalized as much in the junior classes where the differences in running abilities are relatively great. A “junior star” can finish in the top 4-5 even with a bad race. In the senior class the same race would result in 40th place. “Juniors” gets stressed, run harder, get more tired, and make more mistakes. They feel worse than when they were juniors.
What to do? Lower your expectations of top results. Compare yourself to your old competitors. It is interesting to see that it is often those who were a bit behind as juniors who have the best success when they begin as seniors. Those who were aggressive with their technique -- and won junior classes by several minutes -- rarely have good results during their first years as seniors. They don’t have good systematic orienteering!
And finally, learning takes time...
Summary
Systematic orienteering: Take a few extra seconds to pick better routes and select safer ways to take the controls, which leads to better “flow” and better energy.
Reduce stress.
Lower expectations (in the beginning).
Plan.
Simplify.
Think about orienteering.
Have fun.
You have time to think a bit more.
- DIDSCO
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Re: Jackie Newton
Great post Dids, thanks!
Klas was of my era - we had a few ding dongs in the forest (JWOC etc). Great orienteering is all about keeping your cool and applying the right skills at the right time - so, Juniors, look at your peers - who's the coolest????
Klas was of my era - we had a few ding dongs in the forest (JWOC etc). Great orienteering is all about keeping your cool and applying the right skills at the right time - so, Juniors, look at your peers - who's the coolest????
From small acorns great Oak trees grow.
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Lard - diehard
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Re: Jackie Newton
Give her a chance.
She is serious.
The Lillomarka coaching job is a totally different type of job.
She is serious.
The Lillomarka coaching job is a totally different type of job.
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harry - addict
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Re: Jackie Newton
Well.... a good start. Various requests for coaching consultants on the BOF pages
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Gross - god
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Re: Jackie Newton
Yeah Gross - think thats a nice idea to formalise what I suspect people have been doing under the radar of the wider membership for some time. WOuld be nice to see a bit more in the way of specifications but on the other hand why narrow your field at this stage.
On the other topic of coaching, I did my first aid qualifications with the British Assoc Ski patrollers (very good 2 day course with lots of scenario work if anyone interested) and Skiing seems to have more options for top skiiers to get involved with "instruction" without necessarily starting on the nursery slopes like in orienteering.
On the other topic of coaching, I did my first aid qualifications with the British Assoc Ski patrollers (very good 2 day course with lots of scenario work if anyone interested) and Skiing seems to have more options for top skiiers to get involved with "instruction" without necessarily starting on the nursery slopes like in orienteering.
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
- andypat
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Re: Jackie Newton
Oh and of course they go through all that effort in order to get paid at the end of the day
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
- andypat
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Re: Jackie Newton
I did a (pro bono) phone consultation the other night about JWOC in Rauland (Norway).
I got a really good impression about Jackie and her plans for the performance programme.
I had seen that there was a long thread on nopesport about her, I haven't read it all but I can guess the type of thing that has been written. I rarely look at NS these days, much less contribute but I wanted to drop in and just say that she should be given a chance. I am not sure that my character judgement skills are 100% awesome all the time but my impression is that she is serious about and committed to this position. At this point for the athletes it is just better to have anybody than nobody but I think that Jackie will do a good job. In the past we have seen runners with huge amounts of charisma and enthusiasm come in, with little committment long term, make a load of radical decisions that show a lack of understanding of the sport and then move on to better jobs. I do not think that this is what is going to happen now. I think she is serious.
Having said that I think a lot of things and they are not always rooted in reality...
Aside: This website seems to have been neglected. It's as if someone got some more exciting hobbies. It is very difficult to keep people excited about orienteering but I still enjoy it a lot.
I got a really good impression about Jackie and her plans for the performance programme.
I had seen that there was a long thread on nopesport about her, I haven't read it all but I can guess the type of thing that has been written. I rarely look at NS these days, much less contribute but I wanted to drop in and just say that she should be given a chance. I am not sure that my character judgement skills are 100% awesome all the time but my impression is that she is serious about and committed to this position. At this point for the athletes it is just better to have anybody than nobody but I think that Jackie will do a good job. In the past we have seen runners with huge amounts of charisma and enthusiasm come in, with little committment long term, make a load of radical decisions that show a lack of understanding of the sport and then move on to better jobs. I do not think that this is what is going to happen now. I think she is serious.
Having said that I think a lot of things and they are not always rooted in reality...
Aside: This website seems to have been neglected. It's as if someone got some more exciting hobbies. It is very difficult to keep people excited about orienteering but I still enjoy it a lot.
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harry - addict
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