World Cup 2015
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World Cup 2015
I see that Mike Hamilton has taken over every aspect of the elite end of our sport in UK - he will decide if anyone can be selected for the World Cups in January and has basically already stated that anyone aiming at JWOC or WOC will be very unlikely to be allowed to compete. Does he realise that the only way to get a good start position at the World Champs is by having good World Ranking points and that the best way to get World Ranking points is by running in World Cup races?
- Big Jon
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Re: World Cup 2015
I can see the point he's trying to get at (3-5 days travel+jetlag is a big impact into training)
but surely that's for the coach/athlete to decide?
but surely that's for the coach/athlete to decide?
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
- andy
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Re: World Cup 2015
Out of interest, what are you referencing Big Jon? Had been wondering who would be heading over and be a shame if there wasn't a team.
- Jayne
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Re: World Cup 2015
Absolute bollocks from BOF
Quite apart from the need to chase world ranking points, it doesn't make sense - there's only 27 athletes in the elite development/performance squads (as listed on the BOF website, although I think it's a bit out of date) - they can't all make the WOC squad but it's hard to imagine there's many who aren't serious about trying, likewise with the Juniors and JWOC.
It also says that (in addition to the squaddies) "Athletes who have competed at the top level (WOC) since 1st January 2010 are being considered provided they are a good role model." demonstrating the regretable tendency to prioritise arse-kissing over athleticism... IIRC the following athletes (not included in the squad lists on the BOF website) have represented GBR at WOC since 2010 (my apologies if I've missed anyone) - would anyone from BOF like to elaborate on which of them are not considered good role models?
Jon Duncan
Matt Crane
Mark Nixon
Oli Johnson
Helen Bridle
Pippa Archer
Sarah Rollins
Rachael Rothman
Ruth Holmes
Quite apart from the need to chase world ranking points, it doesn't make sense - there's only 27 athletes in the elite development/performance squads (as listed on the BOF website, although I think it's a bit out of date) - they can't all make the WOC squad but it's hard to imagine there's many who aren't serious about trying, likewise with the Juniors and JWOC.
It also says that (in addition to the squaddies) "Athletes who have competed at the top level (WOC) since 1st January 2010 are being considered provided they are a good role model." demonstrating the regretable tendency to prioritise arse-kissing over athleticism... IIRC the following athletes (not included in the squad lists on the BOF website) have represented GBR at WOC since 2010 (my apologies if I've missed anyone) - would anyone from BOF like to elaborate on which of them are not considered good role models?
Jon Duncan
Matt Crane
Mark Nixon
Oli Johnson
Helen Bridle
Pippa Archer
Sarah Rollins
Rachael Rothman
Ruth Holmes
Last edited by greywolf on Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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greywolf - addict
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Re: World Cup 2015
does that really mean "...considered if they live in/willing to travel to Australasia"?
- Jayne
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Re: World Cup 2015
Jayne wrote:does that really mean "...considered if they live in/willing to travel to Australasia"?
Is that you submitting your application Jayne?
Or maybe you were thinking of Craney...
Interestingly (but not relevant) the last(?) time WC races were held in Tasmania (January 1988), BOF were quite happy for me to run for GBR. I can't remember the details but they may well have paid the entry fee and I paid the rest.
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Homer - diehard
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Re: World Cup 2015
I think the bit of the sentence I omitted might count me out
I'll be a very good at cheering on the Brits though
I'll be a very good at cheering on the Brits though
- Jayne
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Re: World Cup 2015
Homer wrote:Interestingly (but not relevant) the last(?) time WC races were held in Tasmania (January 1988), BOF were quite happy for me to run for GBR. I can't remember the details but they may well have paid the entry fee and I paid the rest.
Yeh but you were a good role model in those days
To oblivion and beyond....
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buzz - addict
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Re: World Cup 2015
I've been away for too long so not certain how things work in modern elite orienteering.... but it seems strange to me
Still I suppose Mike Hamilton knows what he's doing as he has a very obvious strength of knowledge & experience in elite orienteering
Still I suppose Mike Hamilton knows what he's doing as he has a very obvious strength of knowledge & experience in elite orienteering
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Gross - god
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Re: World Cup 2015
There's been a recent example of this (world cups New Zealand 2013). I know that the rules have changed regarding seeding of start positions. Is there evidence in place that indicates whether attendance by those who went was detrimental or supportive of their performances at World Champs?
nope it i still have the coolest hat in school
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eddie - [nope] cartel
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Re: World Cup 2015
Big Jon wrote: the only way to get a good start position at the World Champs is by having good World Ranking points and that the best way to get World Ranking points is by running in World Cup races?
IOF Council have made changes to the scheme that removes any statistical basis from the leading rankings. According to the website
http://osport.6prog.org/WR_Home.aspx wrote: it will become a list of athletes who have stood on the podium at WOC and World Cup events.
Anyone who has run a 6-day will know that it will take a lot of good training to compensate for having to knock down the undergrowth. Any selector trying to pick the team most likely to well, will have to take that into consideration. If selectors ignore WR again ...
graeme on Jul 08 before WOC long wrote: it wouldn't surprise me to see Scott resting up for the relay
...more coconuts for me
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: World Cup 2015
Do any of the other European countries have a similar policy. Be a bit of a shame for the World Cups if the recommendation across the board is that european athletes expected to run in the World Champs don't come come over to Tassie.
- Jayne
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Re: World Cup 2015
Jayne wrote:Do any of the other European countries have a similar policy
in BOF's view (or MH's, anyway) anyone selected will have to be
a) in the squad or a recent WOC competitor if they are "a good role model"
b) not serious about running at WOC / JWOC 2015
c) not training properly
d) able to afford it
which seems designed to ensure that nobody goes. If the other European countries have a similar policy they'd best contact the organisers and tell them not to bother...
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greywolf - addict
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Re: World Cup 2015
Jayne wrote:Do any of the other European countries have a similar policy.
Not the Swiss by the look of it
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/ ... BQE0ZMSwZA
- NeilC
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Re: World Cup 2015
I think we're all getting a bit carried away here...(and possibly trying to find ways to bash BO where there are none??)
Mike has very clearly articulated his strategy for world cup selection on the NGB website - a entirely suitable place to do this with full visibility to the membership and the public. I think many of his points make total sense in the context of an overall elite athlete programme.
If you are an athlete and don't agree with this strategy - then you are entitled to, and expected to discuss this with Mike and make your case as to why you think you should go to the world cups. You will need to 'have prepared a strong argument for inclusion and accept that it will be challenged.' Fine.
At that point, I would expect a robust discussion between Mike, athlete and personal coach and a decision in the best interests of the athlete and the programme to be reached.
Andy said 'but surely that's for the coach/athlete to decide?'
No - it is British orienteering's responsibility to maintain the quality and integrity of the elite programme. Its their right to decide who goes even if they can't contribute financially - its not a free for all. This is important for ensuring increasing standard of elite orienteering in the UK.
I think this is all totally fair enough. They've not denied anyone specifically - but they have been exceptionally clear as to where they stand, what their policy is. This is BRILLIANT in the context of better communication and a big step forwards from some previous situations.
You may not agree with the strategy - but I am happy because:
- there is a strategy
- everyone can read it and understand it - its out in the open
- as an athlete you have the right to argue your case
- if you have a good case I strongly believe that you will go
Mike has very clearly articulated his strategy for world cup selection on the NGB website - a entirely suitable place to do this with full visibility to the membership and the public. I think many of his points make total sense in the context of an overall elite athlete programme.
If you are an athlete and don't agree with this strategy - then you are entitled to, and expected to discuss this with Mike and make your case as to why you think you should go to the world cups. You will need to 'have prepared a strong argument for inclusion and accept that it will be challenged.' Fine.
At that point, I would expect a robust discussion between Mike, athlete and personal coach and a decision in the best interests of the athlete and the programme to be reached.
Andy said 'but surely that's for the coach/athlete to decide?'
No - it is British orienteering's responsibility to maintain the quality and integrity of the elite programme. Its their right to decide who goes even if they can't contribute financially - its not a free for all. This is important for ensuring increasing standard of elite orienteering in the UK.
I think this is all totally fair enough. They've not denied anyone specifically - but they have been exceptionally clear as to where they stand, what their policy is. This is BRILLIANT in the context of better communication and a big step forwards from some previous situations.
You may not agree with the strategy - but I am happy because:
- there is a strategy
- everyone can read it and understand it - its out in the open
- as an athlete you have the right to argue your case
- if you have a good case I strongly believe that you will go
The ruth is on fire
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