I don't post on here often but boy has this pissed me off. What the hell is wrong with the people in charge of junior elite orienteering?
Jason hit the nail on the head - while performing well at JWOC is great, whats even better is the amazing experience it gives to those selected. I consider myself so incredibly privileged to have been part of a British JWOC team; I didn't make it at the top level in the seniors, but I've got lifelong friends from that JWOC in Bulgaria, from so many different countries. We took a full team to JWOC in 1999, and as far as I am aware 10 out of those 12 are still orienteering. These kind of experiences bind you to the sport.
Orienteering is a tiny sport in the UK; I'm no expert, but I think that there is a closer relationship between participation and performance than some people at the top would like to admit to; Just look at how many orienteers from around my generation are starting to bring their kids to events. We should be giving our talented junior orienteers as many opportunities as possible to keep them in the sport. leaving 3 empty spots in a JWOC team is just so short sighted. Who cares if the selected athletes aren't likely to make the top 40? How do we know that the experience of international competition (and not just the races, the social elements too) won't be the kickstart that one of our young athletes needs to push on and reach the next level. It's all just so short sighted.
JWOC/EYOC selections
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
Last edited by bendover on Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
To oblivion and beyond....
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
Snail wrote:Because the Selection Policy "aims to support the development of athletes who show the ability or potential to produce top ten results at the World Orienteering Championships in the current season or in future seasons."
If that's really the basis for selection then, given that in the 30 WOCs to date only 13 GBR athletes have managed top ten finishes, identifying 25 juniors as meeting the criteria is either hilariously over-optimistic or a tacit admission that the current squad system is an extremely effective way of blunting ability and squandering potential
Personally I don't think it's fair to criticise those who have been selected (especially as some of the times being bandied around don't seem to match the JK results...), but it's entirely reasonable to ask why some individuals haven't been picked when there are empty spaces. Presuambly the squad managers will only be on 75% wages?
Incidentally, that 13 = 8 women, 5 men. Only 3 of the women went to JWOC
(tbf it started too late for Yvette Hague or Carol McNeill - but a total of 67 women have represented GBR at JWOC to date)
And +1 for Jason's post at lunchtime today!
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
Deleted, because someone thought I shouldn't comment on a previous comment naming someone already named!
Last edited by bewildered on Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
Worth noting that Tamsin and Rhona are both selected for World Unis, a pretty impressive achievement for any junior. So it would be incorrect to say BOF are ignoring them or not giving them international experience. I don't know if this had anything to do with the JWOC selection, but I'd imagine the athletes are still very much within BOF's plans.
Also, last year 23 athletes went to EYOC or JWOC (11+12). This year 25 (16+9). So there are actually more opportunities for Juniors to represent GB internationally so far this year (and that's before the Elite Development Squad going to EOC and 3 W20s going to WUOC). Which suggests BOF are reprioritising selections towards EYOC rather than JWOC this year following the selection races, in line with the 'right competitions at right time of development' rhetoric.
Also, last year 23 athletes went to EYOC or JWOC (11+12). This year 25 (16+9). So there are actually more opportunities for Juniors to represent GB internationally so far this year (and that's before the Elite Development Squad going to EOC and 3 W20s going to WUOC). Which suggests BOF are reprioritising selections towards EYOC rather than JWOC this year following the selection races, in line with the 'right competitions at right time of development' rhetoric.
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
speedy123 wrote:Its not the talent manager who makes the selection decisions.
http://www.britishorienteering.org.uk/i ... bsite3.pdf
Section 7: "The responsibility for selection lies with the NTP Manager.....All final
selection decisions are the responsibility of the NTP Manager."
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
SJC wrote:Time for our talented juniors to take up another sport and ditch O as a pastime.
No. Time for the membership to ask BOF to find a new Talent Manager.
Get rid of the Talent Manager!!
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
bendover wrote:Who cares if the selected athletes aren't likely to make the top 40?
In four individual performances at JWOC, Jaime Stevenson made the top 40 once. On two of those occasions, he finished outside the top 100. I sought of recollect that he went on to do rather better later on.
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
Bewildered - I don't think you should be making comments about people's injury status or naming juniors on a public forum.
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
I'm pretty sure you're allowed the mention the name of someone who is over the age of 18. That said, Bewildered comments are pish.
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
maybe we should select off of the Bof ranking list next year ?
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
I hesitate before posting, being involved as I am in some of the selections. But given the strength of views, I thought it worth pointing out a few things people might want to think about:
- Selection is not solely based on performance in the nominated selections races (the JK in this case). There any many other factors taken into account including past performance, other known form, attitude, commitment etc.
- In the selection races, what is better, one great performance and two mediocre ones (or DSQs, DNSs etc.), or three consistent but not outstanding performances?
- There may be others factors taken into consideration that you don't know now [and might be confidential], e.g. that might have affected someone's performance in the selection races.
- Don't look at selections for one competition in isolation. For those athletes not selected for a given competition, think about what else they have been selected for this summer, and the pros / cons of focusing on one competition, rather than trying to peak for multiple weeks of racing. What is better for a given athlete in a given year, is it the potential of great performances in one week of racing (that they have fully prepared for), or average performances in two weeks close to each other (neither of which they have fully prepared for)?
- There will always be plenty of discussion about whether all spaces available should be filled, regardless of how far behind the winners people are. What is pulling on a GBR vest all about? Should it be a given if you are in the top X, and for some just a ticket to make their lifelong friends at JWOC? Or is it something that should be earned, strived for, and to be proud of? Does not selecting full teams send out a message that just being in the top X in GBR is not necessarily good enough, thus making future aspirants realise they need to really perform, and raising the quality of the GBR team in future?
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
I sent a fairly strongly worded email to a bunch of folks at BOF, selectors included. I don't think we, as the members of British Orienteering should stand for this kind of nonsense.
I don't have a problem with controversial selections, when one athlete is chosen ahead of another. There's always a chance of an 'I told you so' in that situation, plus there are always going to be people out there who agree with that selection.
18s and 20s ran the same races, so you should merge the results together in order to produce the list the selectors will have used. Looking at those results for days2/3 there were 4 people faster, so it's less clear-cut that you make out.
I don't have a problem with controversial selections, when one athlete is chosen ahead of another. There's always a chance of an 'I told you so' in that situation, plus there are always going to be people out there who agree with that selection.
PhilJ wrote:What I also can't fathom is the selection was based on % behind the winners time etc?? So Megan won jk w18e overall day 2 and 3 combined and the sprint day 1, so her overall % was 0 behind the winner as she won everything, yet all she gets is eyoc which she went to last year! If anyone deserved a bump up to jwoc it is her, what else has the girl girl got to do to get selected, beat everyone hands down at the 3 selection races and still not get selected...ffs
18s and 20s ran the same races, so you should merge the results together in order to produce the list the selectors will have used. Looking at those results for days2/3 there were 4 people faster, so it's less clear-cut that you make out.
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
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Re: JWOC/EYOC selections
The wuoc selections were based on the test races, link to the entry list
http://www.fabian4.co.uk/start/list.aspx?EventID=1001
There has been no discussion on this other than it looks likes a great team, which it is, I am sure the girls mentioned by parallelerror will have a great experience and hopefully it will motivate them onto greater things.
http://www.fabian4.co.uk/start/list.aspx?EventID=1001
There has been no discussion on this other than it looks likes a great team, which it is, I am sure the girls mentioned by parallelerror will have a great experience and hopefully it will motivate them onto greater things.
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