Time to ditch age classes?

[SeanC]

Is it time to ditch age classes on events that aren't age class competitions (ie your bog standard level C and D events)? I can think of a few reasons to get rid of them, but few for retaining them. What do you think?

The case against age classes

- more work for the organiser
- a potentially embarrising question to ask a newcomer
- where events are mostly over 45's, it advertises that fact to anyone thinking of going to the next event in the series (which could put younger people off).
- at this level of event, so what if you're 2nd M45 when there are only 2 in that age class?
- people tend to compare their performance against known orienteering ability rather than age (eg "I was 10 minutes behind IanD and 2 behind Gnitworp" rather than "I was 10 minutes behind an M55 and 2 behind an M65").

The case for:
- age classes might be hardcoded into results systems, so taking them out might be more work.
- that's the way it's always been, and it's easier to keep things as they are.
- some people might like them.

[Oldman]

Is it time to ditch age classes on events that aren't age class competitions (ie your bog standard level C and D events)?

Do you mean not printing competitors' ages in the results, because C and D events are mixed age entrants, are they not?

I would personally be very much against such a change if I've understood your suggestion. Otherwise I have no way at all of judging my run except in my own judgement of minutes lost.

[SeanC]

Yes, that's what I'm suggesting.

Surely it's not the age that matters but the competitor?

[Tim]

Agreed, when you are comparing yourself with your mates then age class isn't an issue - but you know their age anyway.

But you don't know all the people you are running against, so their age class is a rough indication of your/their relative ability and hence your performance. Also it helps find them in the rankings, as you can't search by name, which the gives you a better indication of how you got on.

Don't really see a downside of showing them.

[mharky]

There is no compelling argument for removing the age-classes from the results lists of an event using colour-coded based courses.

Has anyone ever actually had a newcomer refuse to declare their age due to embarrassment? Even if this has ever happened, then it would be for seniors and veterans, who if they were newcomers shouldn't be running the nominated course for their class anyway.

It's no extra work for organisers, as you made clear when you contradicted yourself; it's hard-coded into the results systems.

Whether someone returns to an orienteering event is more likely to be due to the experience they had, rather than the age demographic of the event they previously attended.

New comers don't know who their peers are, so it would be nice to let them know that IanD and Gnitworp are the top of the field for their age class.

Having age classes on the results has no negatives in my opinion, but removing them does.

[Oldman]

Whether someone returns to an orienteering event is more likely to be due to the experience they had, rather than the age demographic of the event they previously attended.

Actually, research shows that you are wrong on this: there is evidence that people (especially 20-40 year-olds) are put off by having older people around.

Can't think why, myself.

[SJC]

Park run shows everyone's age class, and tells you your position within your class. It doesn't seem to be doing them any harm.

[andy]

No reason to touch the age classes, just reduce the number of courses on offer.

[Dave]

Actually, research shows that you are wrong on this: there is evidence that people (especially 20-40 year-olds) are put off by having older people around.

care to reference that?

[NFKleanne]

Actually, research shows that you are wrong on this: there is evidence that people (especially 20-40 year-olds) are put off by having older people around.

I am a W21, slow and not brilliant at navigating, but beating a M75 on my course is goodbeating anyone is good, and doing consistantly is brilliant. Sometimes it spuirs me to go quicker, and try harder. Normally I never run my age appropriate class, I orienteer to enjoy myself!

[Oldman]

Actually, research shows that you are wrong on this: there is evidence that people (especially 20-40 year-olds) are put off by having older people around.

care to reference that?

I'll try to find the relevant reference and come back.

[Glucosamine]

As one of the sad ones who not only like comparisons on an age basis, but like to see how a result might fit into an age-based regional league (OK - probably the weakest regional league based on the current compassport article) then I'd be disappointed to see age go on the results. Could we not, indeed, have parkrun-style age-weighted results, as per previous threads? What next - anonymous runs so that nobody's feelings are hurt when they have a poor result?

[DavidJ]

What next - anonymous runs so that nobody's feelings are hurt when they have a poor result?

Why not just have the names and leave out the times? No - keep the names, ages and times so I can that the winner of my course is only an M16 but I was only 15 minutes behind so pretty good really for an M60!

[SeanC]

I'm surprized more people don't see the problem with newcomers. When I talk to newcomers I'd rather not have to ask their age as one of the first questions. I know many are not bothered, and this can be glossed over by those with a bit of skilll, but you want the welcome to be as welcoming as possible - asking questions which some people consider personal/none of your business isn't the best start. Then there is the information overload... so many things for a newcomer to remember... without being confused about age classes.

Remember that for ParkRun you register online before the event. People seem more comfortable giving up personal details to a computer than another human being for some reason.

Inadvertant marketing by results. I hope this isn't true, but I can't help feeling that there are people who do their research on a new pastime online before they try, and event results with 90% adults over 45 just put the younger crowd off. I'd be interested in Oldman's evidence, but the world is full of marketing and advertising targetting specific groups. Much as I might fight it, I don't always feel comfortable trying something new where I know people are different to me. It might be an ugly side to human nature, but it's there.

At the level D sort of event, experienced orienteers tend to know each other, if not by name then by previous result, you just say "I beat X and Y so I had a good run today" rather than thinking about age. And at this level we need to make the events as simple as possible so we can put more of them on surely? I know that SLOW don't have ages for their street O's, what do they think?

Level C's... mmm. I guess we expect a bit more for our money at these, and with fewer newcomers it makes more sense to keep the age classes here since this (small sample) of posters seem to like age classes. But I don't find comparing age classes very useful myself. For example the top ranked M45 is ranked 31 in the country, but you can go down to 3000th + and still find M45's with 6 scoring runs. However if the results included the competitors ranking position, or average ranking points, then I could directly compare my performance against others past performance to see who really had a good run. This might be something worth adding to the BOF results calculations in the future?

[distracted]

I'm surprised more people don't see the problem with newcomers. When I talk to newcomers I'd rather not have to ask their age as one of the first questions.

If you feel there is an issue here, why ask them? Do you actually need this bit of information from newcomers?