Eyam Moor 25 November

[ianandmonika]

Well done to DVO, its members and the officials for holding today's Eyam Moor event. Luckily they had standby parking, but considering last night's weather it all went well if a little slippery in places. Thanks for moving to free start times. Late starters even had sunshine.

[Homer]

Thanks for moving to free start times.

Yes, well done to DVO for successfully staging their event, despite the conditions.

Initially I'd heard that starts had been put back 30 mins. Later we heard that it was an 'open start'. Whilst I can see the reasoning behind the 30 min delay (there was up to 1km extra walk to the start), I struggle to understand the reason for moving to open starts.

The event was being used for selection and I know of at least one abuse of the ability to choose one's own start time. Juniors seem particularly likely to attempt to gain whatever advantage they can by waiting to start immediately after their rival. I suspect I may have done the same in my younger days.

I suspect the organisers will argue that the open start would save people hanging around in the exposed location of the start. I would suggest the opposite: on the most popular courses queues tend to build up at busy times. Nothing is worse than standing in a queue getting cold immediately before you start.

[Roger]

Juniors seem particularly likely to attempt to gain whatever advantage they can by waiting to start immediately after their rival.

Just as well then, for propriety's sake, that Bart didn't catch you up and get a tow...

(P.S. no suggestion of anything improper here)

[EddieH]

Quote "Nothing is worse than standing in a queue getting cold immediately before you start."

I couldn't agree more. I am not an advocate of open starts unless the fields are pretty small like we tend to get up here. What's wrong with a given start which the competitor is guaranteed if there at that time. By all means allow people to start in any vacant slot, but for those that work it out and arrive on time it is a blessing not to have to queue in the cold.

[andypat]

I'd imagine the organisers were thinking of the majority rather than just those who would have been able to cope with a change in start times.

The issue with queueing at the start would be relatively easily sorted by using a numbered ticket system. You take your number then go off for a warm up for the specified number of minutes.

[ianandmonika]

Think open starts worked fine - with revised parking, people didn't know how far to start and it helped people get off immediately without hanging about. When I started at 1100 there was no queue. Re following, even with allocated start times how many times do highly ranked people start next to each other - so not sure that helps much. Also see those who always ask for late start times (to get undergrowth advantage?)- just the same as following? Preentry was 400 with 68 on each of blue and green so not that busy an event.

[MJG]

We announced the 30 minute delay to the starts midday on Saturday on the web site and via Fabian. This was to allow for the revised parking arrangements following a decision that although the field was just about viable on Saturday with the forecast overnight rain we would never have got 200 cars out again.
We arrived at 8:30 on Sunday to find the hired marquee, club tent (for clothing) and all 6 toilets blown down. And we started getting phone calls from helpers saying they were stuck in flooding coming from the M1 in Chesterfield so some competitors would not have made their revised times anyway. By around 10:15 we had the early starters trying to find what shelter they could in atrocious conditions, the start was ready, so rather than wait for first start at 11:00 we took the decision to allow open starts. Given download out of cars and the lack of daylight at the end of the day getting people round early was a major consideration. The prospect of the odd junior taking advantage of a tow was the least of our worries. If anyone cares to analyse the actual start times they are welcome. I had carefully allocated all juniors 4 minutes apart but there are always other competitors between them on the same course so still the luck of the draw.

[Spookster]

If anyone cares to analyse the actual start times they are welcome. I had carefully allocated all juniors 4 minutes apart but there are always other competitors between them on the same course so still the luck of the draw.

If you could put the results on Splitsbrowser, that would be interesting.

Given the conditions early on, I think it's understandable why the decision to allow open starts was taken. A pity that some competitors going for Interland selection might have taken advantage of the situation.

Thanks to DVO for a great event despite the weather!

[EddieH]

I was in no wayintending to be critical of this event which I did not attend.

However my point remains for consideration. Making start times not compulsory (if they were) seems very valid. Guaranteeing starts times does not mean that people cannot start early, merely that they may have to queue to do so. They can however be sure of starting without a queue if they time their arrival (which of course might mean getting there early, seeing a queue, and going off knowing exactly the time and distance).

[RJ]

Changing any system late on often produces more problems than it solves. In the case of the start system the planned system will have had prepared start lists and the ability to keep a paper check of who started. Once the weather starts to dictate, and you give in to a change, then you lose some of the basic safety system that you so definitely need as the conditions worsen.

Yes you can have a CHECK box but that is not infallible. A backup paper system is essential particularly when the conditions deteriorate. When you give in to an open start system with pre-entry competitors it is virtually impossible to record those who do start, and when, on your start lists.

I would say, on safety grounds, it is better to stick to your allocated start list and adjust the actual race time to allow competitors to get to the start in time for their allocated time (and now, probably new actual time). When conditions are bad it is so much more important to know who has started and who has stayed at home or is still in their car!

[Ali Wood]

A pity that some competitors going for Interland selection might have taken advantage of the situation.

Under normal (i.e. less extreme conditions) circumstances it would be undesirable for start times to become totally free-for-all. There were certainly one or two instances of top-ranked people running together that I heard comments about. Not me this time, but I'd be the first to admit that if the temptation or opportunity is there to choose to set off a couple of minutes behind a close rival, I'd succumb.
The advantage of running in tandem is massive, like, worth 3 or 4 minutes, on an area like Eyam, because, for example, an isolated pit on the moor might be found that much easier, and you can to some extent 'share' the navigation on any open sections, AND you get spurred on physically. Bit like a pelaton!
Thanks to organisers for managing to cope at all!

[NeilC]

I've been to a lot of Level B events recently where the start officials are happy to set people off if there is a gap in the start list (and the competitor has arrived early at the start). Often the entry secretary has spent many hours putting together a start list which tries to separate the top runners on a course. I suspect that most people don't realise that this is happening, and thus don't see any problem happily moving competitors' start times around.

[Homer]

Juniors seem particularly likely to attempt to gain whatever advantage they can by waiting to start immediately after their rival.

Just as well then, for propriety's sake, that Bart didn't catch you up and get a tow...

(P.S. no suggestion of anything improper here)

Yes indeed. Sort of makes my point. He'd got to the start first and was hanging around when I got there. I offered to let him go first, but he declined. I didn't want to hang around so just went straight into the box telling him to give me a decent head start. Obviously he thought 2 mins was enough. As it turned out it was (but not for much longer I suspect!).

I was surprised you didn't take advantage of a tow when I came past though Roger

[mike g]

Often the entry secretary has spent many hours putting together a start list which tries to separate the top runners on a course.

Really? I've never thought about trying to separate the top runners when allocating start times. I daresay I would if it was a selection race, but don't see why it matters for any other level B event. Meeting everyone's requests can make compiling a start list tricky enough without introducing another complicating factor.

[Roger]

... telling him to give me a decent head start. Obviously he thought 2 mins was enough. As it turned out it was (but not for much longer I suspect!).

I was going to make a similar comment, but couldn't think how to phrase it without the danger of one of you taking offence. Well done Bart - better give the old man a bit more of a start next time.

I was surprised you didn't take advantage of a tow when I came past though Roger

I could tell that you were about to blunder.