The winning or the taking part?
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The winning or the taking part?
With all the debate about the importance of BEOC, would you rather win BEOC or be selected for WOC?
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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So far WOC has a substantial lead,
Certainly all the best British orienteers will turn up to the WOC selections. It will be the most competitive race of the year.
If everyone turned up at BEOC then being King/Queen of the Forest would be a harder thing to achieve and presumably more prestigious than being in the WOC team.
Certainly all the best British orienteers will turn up to the WOC selections. It will be the most competitive race of the year.
If everyone turned up at BEOC then being King/Queen of the Forest would be a harder thing to achieve and presumably more prestigious than being in the WOC team.
If you could run forever ......
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Kitch - god
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I'd rather be British Elite Champion. Each year only one person can achieve that, whereas several get selected for WOC. A pity that BEOC wasn't competed by all the best runners, but don't let that detract from Ed and Helen's achievements.
Of course for me neither are achievable these days, and it's the taking part that matters! (and the run-in split ).
Of course for me neither are achievable these days, and it's the taking part that matters! (and the run-in split ).
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Spookster - god
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Well, a crushing victory for "taking part" over the "winning".
I guess people dont like being put under pressure. Which is why you find me lurking at the back of M21E instead of trying to win M40.
Graeme
I guess people dont like being put under pressure. Which is why you find me lurking at the back of M21E instead of trying to win M40.
Graeme
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Well that's obviously the case for many people from the poll results.
Its an attitude I dont understand. I'm looking at the WOC results now - if someone like you (godders) had run in WOC03 probably you'd finish low-30s had you run badly maybe low-40s. There's 12 minutes between 31st and 41st - I know you dont make that many mistakes so there's not much scope for you to do much better or worse. Nobody would care, because nobody could really tell if you'd had a good run. And if you really wanted to run you need only become Portugese.
By contrast, to actually win BEOC - an difficult but achievable target for a wannabe elite - you need to have been on top of your form for a whole race.
Just using you as an example of what is clearly the majority view - no personal sleight intended. Obviously for genuine medal-contenders at WOC the situation is different.
Graeme
Its an attitude I dont understand. I'm looking at the WOC results now - if someone like you (godders) had run in WOC03 probably you'd finish low-30s had you run badly maybe low-40s. There's 12 minutes between 31st and 41st - I know you dont make that many mistakes so there's not much scope for you to do much better or worse. Nobody would care, because nobody could really tell if you'd had a good run. And if you really wanted to run you need only become Portugese.
By contrast, to actually win BEOC - an difficult but achievable target for a wannabe elite - you need to have been on top of your form for a whole race.
Just using you as an example of what is clearly the majority view - no personal sleight intended. Obviously for genuine medal-contenders at WOC the situation is different.
Graeme
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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For me the choice comes down to 2 things.
Long term goals - since I ran at JWOC running at WOC is something I've always wanted to do.
Peer group - I believe that among elite orienteers (as opposed to BOF members at large) that finishing in the top 30 or so WOC would be viewed as better than winning BEOC this year with a depleted field.
If everyone actually did turn up for BEOC then personally I'd have more chance of making the WOC team than winning BEOC.
Long term goals - since I ran at JWOC running at WOC is something I've always wanted to do.
Peer group - I believe that among elite orienteers (as opposed to BOF members at large) that finishing in the top 30 or so WOC would be viewed as better than winning BEOC this year with a depleted field.
If everyone actually did turn up for BEOC then personally I'd have more chance of making the WOC team than winning BEOC.
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Godders - blue
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From a sports polotics view at top 30 finish at WOC is (or was at least) much more important than a win at BEOC...... Dave's suggested 31st position would have help secure funding....... Recent guff from Scotland implies much more weight put on top class international results than domestic results...........
- gross2004
gross2004 wrote:From a sports polotics view at top 30 finish at WOC is (or was at least) much more important than a win at BEOC...... Dave's suggested 31st position would have help secure funding..
That's only true if you assume that whoever-went-instead-of-Dave would do worse. This isn't the case - there are probably a dozen or so men who could fill the last few places on the team without noticably weakening it.
Graeme
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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mharky wrote:name a dozen then...
OK... we'll have to accept Godders as the thread's become about him, then
Six from the WOC03 team.
Morgan and Palmer (EOC04 team)
Nash and McCarthy (BEOC Champions)
Bogle (fastest time at the first set of selection races)
That would be 12, and still not enough room for all the top-3 in the selection races.
Who don't you rate?
Graeme
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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you said there were 12 or so who could fill the last few places. last few being 2, 3??? so say JS,JD,DM,NB are in the hypothetical team, what 12 could fill the last few places and yet make a very slight difference to the standard of the team. SP was in WOC 2001, 18th on the classic i beleive and best brit
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mharky - team nopesport
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OK. I gave you twelve already. If you take out the "top four", you want another four people who could do just as well as, say, Oli and Craney they being the two that went to WOC03. The whole point is you cant tell who'll do well in a single race (OK, Palmer was 21st in 01, but no doubt you and I could have managed "did not qualify" and "did not finish").
Look at the selection races. Ignore the eight I already gave you.
At 007 classic both Oli and Craney were behind
Dicky Wren,
Andy Kitchin,
Tim Tett
Andy Etherden
Matt Speake
At 007 short Oli was behind
Andy Etherden
Matt Speake
At Holme Fell Craney got beat by
Dicky Wren
Andy Etherden
Duncan Archer
Scott Fraser
Rob Baker
Matt Speak
Ali Buckley
Tim Tett
Neil Northrop
And at the short race champs
Murray Strain
Matt Speake
Paddy Walder
OK - so thats 20 people who, on a given day in a named selection race were able to beat the people on the WOC03 team.
Gross' benchmark of top 40 in the classic was over 28 minutes down - if it was a national event you could finish 36th without even a qualifying time for your gold badge!
Do we have a stack of people capable of doing that? Of course we do!
Look at the selection races. Ignore the eight I already gave you.
At 007 classic both Oli and Craney were behind
Dicky Wren,
Andy Kitchin,
Tim Tett
Andy Etherden
Matt Speake
At 007 short Oli was behind
Andy Etherden
Matt Speake
At Holme Fell Craney got beat by
Dicky Wren
Andy Etherden
Duncan Archer
Scott Fraser
Rob Baker
Matt Speak
Ali Buckley
Tim Tett
Neil Northrop
And at the short race champs
Murray Strain
Matt Speake
Paddy Walder
OK - so thats 20 people who, on a given day in a named selection race were able to beat the people on the WOC03 team.
Gross' benchmark of top 40 in the classic was over 28 minutes down - if it was a national event you could finish 36th without even a qualifying time for your gold badge!
Do we have a stack of people capable of doing that? Of course we do!
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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