March in the Marches
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Re: March in the Marches
Sorry, that's my fault. I was tired and forgot. RG is pretty heath-robinson and it's easy to forget its little foibles.
- Adrian
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Re: March in the Marches
Paul, in answer to your contour question, yes.
Regarding the railway crossings, it was a bit confusing at the start as the official told us to cross using the marked crossing points. To me that would mean they were indicated with the purple symbol - they weren't.
Perhaps we need a BOF set script to be read at starts Perhaps then the start banner would be pointed out as in most event; my offspring didn't see it (none of the family did actually )
Regarding the railway crossings, it was a bit confusing at the start as the official told us to cross using the marked crossing points. To me that would mean they were indicated with the purple symbol - they weren't.
Perhaps we need a BOF set script to be read at starts Perhaps then the start banner would be pointed out as in most event; my offspring didn't see it (none of the family did actually )
- RS
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Re: March in the Marches
But surely the bridge symbol was used - the bendy lines at the end join the black lines along the railway The contour lines on the actual maps are a lot more subdued infact.
RS - am I understanding you correctly? You're complaining about the positioning of the start banner?
RS - am I understanding you correctly? You're complaining about the positioning of the start banner?
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Mrs H - god
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Re: March in the Marches
Mrs H wrote:You're complaining about the positioning of the start banner?
I was running in a forest yesterday and didn't see the wood for the trees.... so I moaned on the internet
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
Real Name - Gross
http://www.scottishotours.info
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Gross - god
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Re: March in the Marches
... depends on what you mean by a bridge!But surely the bridge symbol was used
In ISSOM-speak,
A bridge is a structure spanning and permitting passage over a river, chasm, road or the like.
In the case of a railway, you would therefore be going over the railway via a bridge, but under it (as was the Malvern case at issue), via a tunnel.
so, on this basis, the dotted line tunnel/underpass symbol (518.1) would have indicated a way beneath the railway. Or, arguably, use of the canopy (526.2) would have given a similar clue.An underpass or a tunnel is a passage running underneath the ground, especially a passage for pedestrians or vehicles, crossing under for instance a railroad or a road.
Also, ISSOM says
and this didn't happen, so it's quite understandable that competitors weren't sure where they could cross the railway!If underpasses or tunnels etc. are to be used in a competition, they shall be emphasized with the symbol (708) or (708.1)!
- DJM
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Re: March in the Marches
The bridges ARE clear but the two underpasses involved x'ing thick black lines, people could easily be put off in light of the focus on not x'ing them in pre-event literature.Not sure how to resolve that...obvious once you were on the spot that they were doable ( I assume they were legal ) but given prior talk about you musn't under ANY circumstances cross a thick black line I can understand the potential for confusion..
Apparently there was a hidden tunnel also that some people found. ( course 3 between 14 and 15)..not sure how as not on any obvious line...sometimes being lost seems to help or local knowledge?
any way enjoyed the day and the course even though brain went to sleep and I missed out a control...3 controls in a straight line ....done that before
I never saw the start banner either but had seen my first control fron the start so no prob...didn't have the 180 degree from the start turn that seemed to confuse lots of people on some of the other courses....glad i didn't, it seemed totally counter intuitive you had to go forward to go back before you started and through the milling crowds to. ..
Apparently there was a hidden tunnel also that some people found. ( course 3 between 14 and 15)..not sure how as not on any obvious line...sometimes being lost seems to help or local knowledge?
any way enjoyed the day and the course even though brain went to sleep and I missed out a control...3 controls in a straight line ....done that before
I never saw the start banner either but had seen my first control fron the start so no prob...didn't have the 180 degree from the start turn that seemed to confuse lots of people on some of the other courses....glad i didn't, it seemed totally counter intuitive you had to go forward to go back before you started and through the milling crowds to. ..
- johnhrobinson
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Re: March in the Marches
Mrs H wrote:But surely the bridge symbol was used - the bendy lines at the end join the black lines along the railway
I too had difficulty deciphering where I was allowed to pass under the railway. I had a chat with the mapper afterwards. Apparently, the bridge symbol has been used. My problem is that to my eyes, the black lines of the bridge symbol merge seamlessly with the black edge of the OOB.
I accept that the map may be technically correct, but the fact remains that I can't read this bit of it. I prefer the philosophy used in Edinburgh. Where there is a level you can get to and a level you can't, only the level you can get to is mapped. Therefore where you can get under the railway, the track disappears from the map, and the underpass is shown in canopy pale grey.
I mention this not to have a go at the map, which I thought was pretty good, but just to publicise a way of making this aspect even better.
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- IanD
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Re: March in the Marches
I accept that the map may be technically correct
No, I don't think it's technically correct. As per my previous posting, bridges are devices which take you over things and, in the Malvern examples referred to, competitors weren't going over the railway, they were going under it ...
Tunnels/underpasses are the devices which take you under things and these are shown differently in ISSOM.
- DJM
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Re: March in the Marches
As a planner of a forthcoming urban event, I read all the posts in an attempt to mitigate any problems I may have. I wasn't at Malvern, so I try to imagine what my racetime reaction would be to the bridge/tunnel scenario. I think I would have assumed that if a path was visible on both sides of the railway then I could get through/under. However, this doesn't work at the bridge at the bottom near the football pitches. A road one side and open the other could infer the embankment is solid (ie a bridge was intended but never built). The bridge (if there is one) symbol is lost in the retaining walls. So the dotted line/grey pass under would be more appropriate. Especially as it is not really necessary to show the railway lines.
- drobin
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Re: March in the Marches
johnhrobinson wrote:The bridges ARE clear but the two underpasses involved x'ing thick black lines, people could easily be put off in light of the focus on not x'ing them in pre-event literature.Not sure how to resolve that...
There is a rather blindingly simple solution really. Makes maps to the international standard and hold events that match one of the international disciplines. i.e. non of this urban slog rubbish, and in this case a map to ISSOM with sprint race(s).
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lostlad - off string
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Re: March in the Marches
No Mrs H. I was not complaining about the positioning of the start banner. I said I, amongst others, didn't see it.
- RS
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Re: March in the Marches
lostlad wrote:i.e. non of this urban slog rubbish
Well, give me more, it it means the quality of event we had on Saturday. Certainly more interesting (and technically challenging) than slogging through rubbish terrain. Good descriptive effort though - at least one word looks accurate.
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awk - god
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Re: March in the Marches
IanD wrote: I prefer the philosophy used in Edinburgh. Where there is a level you can get to and a level you can't, only the level you can get to is mapped.
This is explicit in ISSOM:
2.5 The main ‘running’ level of multilevel structures should be represented
Multilevel structures such as bridges, canopies, underpasses or underground buildings are common in urban areas. The cartographic representation of more than one level is in general impossible. Hence only the main ‘running’ level should be represented on the map.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: March in the Marches
Some interesting entries data from the Foxley event.
M65 - 42, M60 - 41, M50 - 39, M55 - 36,
while M21 - 14, M35 - 5.
The mapper was in her 70s, the planner in his 60's.
I am very worried about what the future holds for orienteering in the UK.
M65 - 42, M60 - 41, M50 - 39, M55 - 36,
while M21 - 14, M35 - 5.
The mapper was in her 70s, the planner in his 60's.
I am very worried about what the future holds for orienteering in the UK.
- denzil53
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Re: March in the Marches
Why should you be, 60's the new 40
- Gnitworp
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