Water stations

[FatBoy]

OK when it says there's a water point out on the course, am I wrong to assume I don't need to take water with me?

High Rigg yesterday I virtually had to crawl (well walk anyway) due to dehydration from about 70 minutes to 103 minutes when I hit the water station. Another 19 minutes and I was in to the finish. Taking in to account the 35 min walk up a big hill to the start would it have been sensible to put more water points out?

I know Ed and Godders were through the water crossing before 70 minutes but for the rest of us mortals it just compounds how much they beat us by

IMO we either need to say take your own water or if it's to be provided then there needs to be enough out there for all competitors' standards.

[Godders]

Commiserations on being beaten by Gillian

I ran round with a platypus so didn't even bother with the drinks point. I had one at Holme Fell too - definitely helped towards the end.

Having said that though, the drinks point was too late in the course to be much use yesterday (about 66min out of 76min for me). I know High Rigg is a difficult area to get drinks out on but we did cross a stile about half way round that was next to the main road so a few bottles could have been dumped there relatively easily.

Easy answer is just to always carry your own water. With a platypus or camel back it's easy to carry/drink.

[rocky]

doesn't one really need to be drinking for, say, the first 3rd of ones course to avoid dehydration at the end? so a drinks point 9/10ths of the way is a bit futile really: either you're dehydrated and theres no way back or you're still fine and a drinks point still isn't gonna stop you getting dehydrated in the last 10 minutes anyway

[gross2004]

Drinks stations should be available after the first 30% or so of the course. It's important to get water on board early... before dehydration sets in. A drinks point at 70mins of a 100 mins course isn't much use.

Dave G's option of running with water is best... little & often.

I noticed in the Nike shop that they have there version of the plytapus system going for £25 just now.

[FatBoy]

Commiserations on being beaten by Gillian

Can't blame that on dehydration - she beat me by almost 10 mins the day before anyway!

Running with a Camelback/Platypus on has got to slow you down, although nowhere near as much as dehydration. I don't find it at all comfy even biking with a bag on so if I can avoid wearing one I will. I actually had my Camelback in the car with a tub of High 5 - I elected not to use it because I decided a water point at about 1/2 way would've been enough.

My point is simply that if water points are provided on the course shouldn't they be enough for all courses? Alternatively say water isn't going to be provided and I'll put up running with the bag on.

[Gillian]

I also think they should provide water at the start. I took a 330ml bottle of water to the start, and drank all of it. They could easily have provided water as you left the road just before the start. I wish they provided toilets at the start as well though

I always go on the assumption that if you want water during your course, you should take it with you. Then if water stations are not early enough / in the wrong place / not on the direct route / have run out / are in bottles and you have to pour your own etc then you're not reliant on them! Also you can drink what you want and when you want.

I use a platypus in a bum-bag and don't find it a problem at all. Probably does slow you down slightly at the start, but more than compensates by the end.

As well as my 330ml bottle, I also had 1litre of Isostar in with me on Sunday - I also had (and was very glad of) it with me on Saturday! - 15 mins jog to the start, then 50 mins on the course on a hot day...

[frodo]

I agree it was proper hot at High Rigg and water would have been nice earlier. If i know its going to be hot/long i like a camelbak with some psp22 chucked in, if you dont fill it too much it doesnt slow you down and the benefits are defo worth it.

[Ed]

I hadn't realised there was going to be a drinks point, and I didn't have a camelbak with me (hadn't read the details, didn't expect it to be too warm...). would deffo have been nice to have had some drinks 12-13, but apart from that you can't really blame them for not wanting to have to lug drinks up onto the fell.

although it was a bit late in the day I did still stop and have a cupful of water though.

[FatBoy]

I'd have probably been ok if I was as fit as you Ed - at a guess you were at the drinks stop at about 63 mins - I was on my way to 13 at that time and gagging for a drink! Perhaps I should go training more often then I wouldn't need extra drinks points

What I really want to know is what do people want in principal. What we've had so far is competitors' views on the reality - Ed runs so fast he doesn't need drinks, Mr+Mrs G take drinks with them because they accept that there aren't going to be enough on the course.

As much as I hate red tape I'd like to see a ruling one way or the other which is observed so people know where they stand. As it is I'm going to have to take fluid with me so I don't feel this nope on a course again. The downside of this is I could find that I needn't have bothered as there's 5 drinks points out there on a particular day. If you go to even a minor road race you'll get told there's drinks at 2km, 6km etc. Out in the wilds of High Rigg with all those big crags having badly dehydrated competitors is alot more dangerous than on the pavements in a road race.

Any thoughts anyone?

[Guest]

Notwithstanding the argument of whether or not drink stations should be provided. Something which could prove very difficult in some areas, especially to get them at the right points. Surely it is very simple for the organiser at an event, in collaboration with the planner and controller to have a simple sign made up in the assembly area with course numbers, distance and climb along with the relative km distances to the drinks stations. Or simply "drink stations are not provided" if that is the case.
Everyone then knows where they stand before setting off and can make their own assessment of what fluids they may need to take with them. What is required on a day such as at High Rigg is not the same as that required at a Simonside. Competitors will then make their own judgements as to what is required for them to perform at peak performance, the same way as individuals train differently to best suit their needs.

[gross2004]

There are rules for international competitions (including WRE's). Whether these filter down to domestic competition you need to check the BOF Website.

[Guest]

We had major problems with lack of water at the lakes 5 days when it was incredibly hot. Kids were passing out on the way to the start. They just said no water, it was a bit of an excuse, to cut costs. Later the same year we went to the flanders three days also very warm and they just put bottles out at numerous points so you could drink or pour it if required and boy was it required. I had a platypus but still needed water and I don't run long courses. I suffer from dehydration and lack of fitness, and if I'm out for 60 mins plus I start to suffer, even in moderate heat.

Some clubs don't even provide water at the finish. At NE 1 it was at download not at the finish. There was a suitable track right up to it so no excuses. This meant people would go to their cars for fluid and may forget download. Not good strategically.

[i-pod]

Some clubs don't even provide water at the finish. At NE 1 it was at download not at the finish. There was a suitable track right up to it so no excuses.

Except perhaps the excuse that NE1 was held on 1st February, a date not normally associated with the worst cases of overheating and dehydration.

But it's a fair point that for many it was much quicker to go back to their car for a drink before heading to download... or indeed get changed, have a snack and natter before going to download.

[Ed]

We had major problems with lack of water at the lakes 5 days when it was incredibly hot. Kids were passing out on the way to the start. They just said no water, it was a bit of an excuse, to cut costs. Later the same year we went to the flanders three days also very warm and they just put bottles out at numerous points so you could drink or pour it if required and boy was it required. I had a platypus but still needed water and I don't run long courses. I suffer from dehydration and lack of fitness, and if I'm out for 60 mins plus I start to suffer, even in moderate heat.

I suspect it was more than just an excuse to cut costs - the logistical problems of getting sufficient water up to (and any unused down from) e.g. Place Fell or Angletarn Pikes are pretty serious. Compared to the Flanders 3-day where the was probably plenty of drivable tracks...

Personally I see no problem in water not being provided, particularly if it's been clearly stated beforehand that that's the case.

[graeme]

I also think they should provide water at the start.

The start is certainly the most important place to be properly hydrated, and if its 20mins+ walk you may want to drink there. But its no hassle for competitors to bring their own water - all thats needed is a bin bag.

The trouble with water stations in the UK is that very often they're unnecessary, and when they are needed there's a danger of running
out unless they are staffed, which is probably the worst possible thing.

Carrying a couple of hundred people's worth of water up a mountain is no fun. In the US there are strict guidelines - thats great for competitors but placing the water stations is a comparable effort to hanging the controls.
In my opinion, apart from the very major events, the organisers effort would be better spent elsewhere.

Graeme