Springtime in Shropshire
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
Which parts of Ludlow were used ? (I have not seen the map.) There must be some scope in the New Town and if Ludlow was ever combined with Whitcliffe, it would surely be a good area. (I have planned a few courses in my head over the years). A start up on the common, a loop, in over Dinham Bridge....
----
Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?
Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?
-
ryeland of doom - blue
- Posts: 442
- Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:34 am
- Location: Cockenzie
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
...and Gnitworp's constructive, informed feedback was gratefully received.
A couple of general points about Urban races on the back of the Ludlow experience.
Firstly, within clubs we are still building up the experience of staging these events and any means of sharing "good practice" has got to be a good thing. That applies to organisational matters as well as planning - it is a very different matter setting up a start in a secluded forest compared to doing so amid Sunday's ever changing permutations.
Secondly, Ludlow was supposed to be a low-key addition to the 3 days forest orienteering. I think the level of take-up demonstrates just how popular the genre has already become and how it can cheerfully co-exist along side traditional venues.
A couple of general points about Urban races on the back of the Ludlow experience.
Firstly, within clubs we are still building up the experience of staging these events and any means of sharing "good practice" has got to be a good thing. That applies to organisational matters as well as planning - it is a very different matter setting up a start in a secluded forest compared to doing so amid Sunday's ever changing permutations.
Secondly, Ludlow was supposed to be a low-key addition to the 3 days forest orienteering. I think the level of take-up demonstrates just how popular the genre has already become and how it can cheerfully co-exist along side traditional venues.
- Marian
- white
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 10:58 am
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
RS wrote: Mind you, Ludlow did have something different - a control in olive green!
I was tempted to try to run along the top of the (uncrossable - I wouldn't have crossed it unless I fell off) wall to get to it, but finally decided that the footpath through the cemetry was the preferred route!
RS wrote:Can't see how the map could be used again for anything other than a low-key event as it was mainly olive green.
Perhaps we have different definations of 'low-key', but there are plenty of route options available, including at least a couple of long legs which would require careful deliberation and then continuous navigation.
But probably not a Sprint area.
SJC gives a good explanation of the control description error. I even 'saw' the very centre of the circle being to S/SW of the wall/fence?/building corner.
- cbg
- red
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 pm
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
Nice Photos Simon.
We walked parts of our course and took photos of buildings. It was great to disciver unkown Ludlow with a map.
Re the event as a whole.
My comments are:
The colour coding of maps with several in the same colour range is a disaster. Call the courses 1,2,3 .... or a,b, c, So many people picked up the wrong map creating a lot of extra work for the SI team, as it was a holiday event people were not penalised beyond the non qualification for the three days.
The rudeness of some members of our bretheren is unbelievable. One chap was abusive to organisers fellow competitors and public on the urban race.
Also the expectation of many people that their requests for starts are deemed to be demands. We should not be so soft. Split starts for parents with young children amd every one else takes what is allocated. If you O abroad your starts are done by course and there is no consideration of who you are with.
When you have spent numerous hours trying to sort out requests it is very upsetting to be met with people who think it is their right to have a certain start time because it inconveniences their day, they might have to get up earlier !!!!
We walked parts of our course and took photos of buildings. It was great to disciver unkown Ludlow with a map.
Re the event as a whole.
My comments are:
The colour coding of maps with several in the same colour range is a disaster. Call the courses 1,2,3 .... or a,b, c, So many people picked up the wrong map creating a lot of extra work for the SI team, as it was a holiday event people were not penalised beyond the non qualification for the three days.
The rudeness of some members of our bretheren is unbelievable. One chap was abusive to organisers fellow competitors and public on the urban race.
Also the expectation of many people that their requests for starts are deemed to be demands. We should not be so soft. Split starts for parents with young children amd every one else takes what is allocated. If you O abroad your starts are done by course and there is no consideration of who you are with.
When you have spent numerous hours trying to sort out requests it is very upsetting to be met with people who think it is their right to have a certain start time because it inconveniences their day, they might have to get up earlier !!!!
Diets and fitness are no good if you can't read the map.
-
HOCOLITE - addict
- Posts: 1274
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:42 pm
- Location: Down the Ag suppliers
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
HOCOLITE wrote:The rudeness of some members of our bretheren is unbelievable. One chap was abusive to organisers fellow competitors and public on the urban race.
When you have spent numerous hours trying to sort out requests it is very upsetting to be met with people who think it is their right to have a certain start time because it inconveniences their day, they might have to get up earlier !!!!
And then we are surprised when these people don't obey all our out of bounds rules? Popularising the sport has its consequences ... discuss. Competition tends to bring out the worst in people.
- cbg
- red
- Posts: 187
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 10:45 pm
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
Marian wrote:Secondly, Ludlow was supposed to be a low-key addition to the 3 days forest orienteering. I think the level of take-up demonstrates just how popular the genre has already become and how it can cheerfully co-exist along side traditional venues.
HOCOLITE wrote:Also the expectation of many people that their requests for starts are deemed to be demands. We should not be so soft. Split starts for parents with young children amd every one else takes what is allocated. If you O abroad your starts are done by course and there is no consideration of who you are with.
When you have spent numerous hours trying to sort out requests it is very upsetting to be met with people who think it is their right to have a certain start time because it inconveniences their day, they might have to get up earlier !!!!
If its a low key event why not have a punching start? If its not and people are travelling a distance then I think you need to help people out. About 30% of entrants for the Erskine NUL event came from outwith Scotland by train, boat and plane and we bent over backwards to get them the starts they requested to thank them for travelling to our event!
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
- andypat
- god
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:58 pm
- Location: Houston, we have a problem.
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
> Andypat - I was talking specifically about Ludlow, which did have a punching start. I'm pretty sure Hocolite is talking about SinS as a whole - the 3 forest events had start times allocated.
- Marian
- white
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 10:58 am
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
Thanks Marian
On re-reading Hocolite's post I can see now he/she was referring to the entire series with his comments. Still not so sure his comments would tempt me to one of his/hers events all the same....
I was going to say "he" on the basis that men are generally more guilty if irascibility than women, but having read mappingmums post about the Scottish Champs I've gone for gender neutral
On re-reading Hocolite's post I can see now he/she was referring to the entire series with his comments. Still not so sure his comments would tempt me to one of his/hers events all the same....
I was going to say "he" on the basis that men are generally more guilty if irascibility than women, but having read mappingmums post about the Scottish Champs I've gone for gender neutral
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
- andypat
- god
- Posts: 2856
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:58 pm
- Location: Houston, we have a problem.
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
Definitely a "her"! But AP how can you say that when there is such quality EVO attached to Hoco's events
Agree about Mappingmum's post - it even scared me!
Agree about Mappingmum's post - it even scared me!
-
Mrs H - god
- Posts: 2971
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:30 pm
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
Have to say we thoroughly enjoyed the weekend. Weather was not as good as Mrs H advertised, she'll have to get a better line to the powers that be.
The Ceilih was in the right place Mrs H and MU result was G8 to watch beforehand
Unfortunate regarding the misplaced controls, affected our eldest but leg removal seemed appropriate at this level of event. I cannot remember ever going to a multi-day event where every day/event was affected. Maybe the clubs involved need to review their Controllong/Planning process.
Campsite was OK.
Thanks to all involved.
The Ceilih was in the right place Mrs H and MU result was G8 to watch beforehand
Unfortunate regarding the misplaced controls, affected our eldest but leg removal seemed appropriate at this level of event. I cannot remember ever going to a multi-day event where every day/event was affected. Maybe the clubs involved need to review their Controllong/Planning process.
Campsite was OK.
Thanks to all involved.
"If A is success in life, then A equals x plus y plus z. Work is x; y is play; and z is keeping your mouth shut" Abraham Lincoln
-
LostAgain - diehard
- Posts: 774
- Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:32 pm
- Location: If only I knew
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
Marian wrote:Firstly, within clubs we are still building up the experience of staging these events and any means of sharing "good practice" has got to be a good thing.
Good point Marian. Even though I regard myself as an experienced urban orienteer, a couple of, fortunately minor, issues arose at Ripon which I learned from - not least how small details on an urban map can have a much more significant effect than in terrain. In our case it was mainly down to runners interpreting features as being uncrosssable barriers across a route when they weren't (uncrossable!) - e.g. an index contour sticking out the end of an uncrossable wall as it crossed a path, a second thin pavement edge line lying a mite too close to another (in future I'd remove both).
Most important lesson though was, again, on control descriptions (which is why I mention here) - control 13 on the A course (also on B and C courses):
http://www.claro.routegadget.co.uk/clar ... d=7&kieli=
Description was Building NW corner. It was rightly pointed out that this left the positioning relative to the uncrossable wall ambiguous. We would have been better to have used Eastern wall S.end W. side, or Path E.side (couldn't really tweak the kite position owing to lack of features to hang on). Most people coped or reasoned it out accurately (the NW corner is JUST visible as being on the W side of the wall), but there was an element of ambiguity which we shouldn't have had. We, planner and controller, could only apologise, and learn from it.
BTW, I was impressed with one competitor's reasoning: by being hung on the east side, the subsequent leg would have been a fairly boring drag, but by behing hung on the west side, it made for much more interesting orienteering. Such faith!!
-
awk - god
- Posts: 3215
- Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:29 pm
- Location: Bradford
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
Didn't go to Ripon but I can see what you mean by the description for #13 on A. looking at it on Routegadget I had it on the other side of the wall until Andy described the description - path East side would have much more unambiguous basing it on the RG map.
- mikey
- diehard
- Posts: 844
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 3:32 pm
- Location: here and there
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
Yes, looking at RouteGadget I think I would have described that Ripon control as eastern wall, west side.
Re. Ludlow control #42 - like others, I was caught out by the description but saved additional timeloss by the locked gate. I'd assume that it was just a simple mistake, as I can't see a way of making it fit the control site in question.
Despite only having arrived on the Sunday evening (and then hung around the pub in Ludlow for so long that I missed most of the quiz ) I did enjoy my first SinS experience - event campsites are awesome, and despite some truly muppetish navigation I had good fun on the middle on Monday.
In the spirit of constructive criticism, I'd say that I thought the planning for the urban race could have been a bit more challenging. I enjoyed it, but thought we had a few too many legs on the A course that were very straightforward, particularly towards the start, although the course improved later on.
But saying that, I spoke to several people for whom it was their first "proper" urban event, and they all thought it was fantastic. Perhaps we urban connoisseurs are becoming too demanding?
Re. Ludlow control #42 - like others, I was caught out by the description but saved additional timeloss by the locked gate. I'd assume that it was just a simple mistake, as I can't see a way of making it fit the control site in question.
Despite only having arrived on the Sunday evening (and then hung around the pub in Ludlow for so long that I missed most of the quiz ) I did enjoy my first SinS experience - event campsites are awesome, and despite some truly muppetish navigation I had good fun on the middle on Monday.
In the spirit of constructive criticism, I'd say that I thought the planning for the urban race could have been a bit more challenging. I enjoyed it, but thought we had a few too many legs on the A course that were very straightforward, particularly towards the start, although the course improved later on.
But saying that, I spoke to several people for whom it was their first "proper" urban event, and they all thought it was fantastic. Perhaps we urban connoisseurs are becoming too demanding?
British Orienteering Director | Opinions expressed on here are entirely my own, and do not represent the views of British Orienteering.
"If only you were younger and better..."
"If only you were younger and better..."
-
Scott - god
- Posts: 2380
- Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:43 am
- Location: in the queue for the ice-cream van
Re: Springtime in Shropshire
mikey wrote: looking at it on Routegadget
Given the vagaries of RG, it's not centred quite as accurately as it was on the map, of course.
My (small) mitigation was that the control site needed to be moved about 10 days before the event owing to a late change of access earlier on the leg. It had originally been on the building NW corner further south on the same alley. I was mentally focused on the buildings, and to be honest never clicked that there was any ambiguity until it was gently pointed out by our first finisher (who happens to have controlled WOCs and WMOCs!). Of course, in hindsight, it's obvious.
Am looking forward to seeing Ludlow on RG when it arrives.
-
awk - god
- Posts: 3215
- Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:29 pm
- Location: Bradford
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 55 guests