orienteering and photography

[bendover]

thought i would start a new thread here regarding photography and orienteering - just to take it away from a thread titled 'fantastic jk'.

some talking points that could be discussed here:

- what constitutes a good orienteering photograph that is going to appeal to people unfamiliar with the sport?

- how can the legal issues (model release) be negotiated? potentially a disclaimer through entry forms?

- should BO pay a photographer or rely on voluntary work?

while i am prepared to take a few images for free, i'm also not going to prioritise this over my run and general race experience on the day; sure i'll put 15-20 mins aside to take a few photographs. but ultimately i'm always going to prioritise my run and catching up with rarely seen friends. i don't get to enough races these days for it to be any oher way.

okay...

[Freefall]

Does my action photo in the other thread count as a good orienteering photo? It is distinguished by:
Orienteering paraphernalia - compass, SI Card, map, whistle
O kit (not old men's pyjamas) and club is not totally obvious
Race number - it's competitive (but the competitor cannot be identified by specific number)
Motion - it's a fast and exciting sport
Background - obviously out there somewhere (forest, open terrain)

I sought permission from the parents, having contacted the club first. I also understand that there is something like a parental consent form when Juniors sign up in the club?

[Paul T]

Some useful information here

[SeanC]

From a personal viewpoint re publicity it depends what you're using the photo for. The picture of Ralph Street on the SLOW website is great for publicity aimed at younger runners and adventure racers - it shows fast running off paths by a younger orienteer. You can't see the landscape so it could be used about orienteering anywhere, though another time you might want some mountains or the sea behind. At the other end of the scale there's this sort of photo which is great if the publicity is aimed at new families: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49868762@N ... 5157342385 it shows everyone having a good time, that you can orienteer without any special kit, and that orienteering is about running. Unfortunately I have no idea who they are so can't ask for permission to use. I also love this picture of my son. http://www.flickr.com/photos/49868762@N ... 5157342385 but that might be bias.

The last two pictures were from a professional photographer funded by Kent County Council. A professional is definately more likely to get a really great picture as they wont be worried about competing so have more time, and are likely to have better kit and presumably more skill. Would BOF pay? That's up to us isn't it? BOF's marketing budget is pretty limited and most of its money is ringfenced initiative money from central government so probably couldn't be used to pay for professional photographers at the JK and the like. A professional photographer at the JK, maybe £1000 so about 50p each? Would you pay the extra on entry fees or would it be seen as an unnecessary luxury?

[Paul Frost]

Would a statement along these lines in the final details and on the website be valid/legal?

Photographs: any that are taken during the event may be used in future orienteering publicity.
No participant will be identified by name.
By entering this event you are giving permission for them to be used, and without payment.
If you do not wish photographs to be used in this way please write to ...

[Happy]

As a publicity officer I am seeking shots at the big events for our club members. These I can then use to submit with any report to our local paper.

Just submitting some words about how our members did at a National Event like the upcoming BOC in Sheffield has no meaning to local readers without a picture. Local papers for much of their sporting material rely on local contributors and the more dynamic a photo looks, the more likely we are to push the darts league out (half the time the Orienteering articles are in the main body of the paper with news articles and not in the sports section)! Whenever the local athletics club members turn out for GB, they get loads of column inches but always have good photo!

As it is only our club members who I want pictures of, when I do get a suitable photo, I always ask the permission of the member or their parent if a junior.

[mappingmum]

Some useful information here

Really interesting!
Love the quote: orienteering is . . . .
"a load of pyjama clad wooly hat wearing bespectacled balding competitors milling around in no coherant pattern. Secondly, they all start at different times, run around different courses in different directions, usually in atrocious conditions " John Shiels

[Scott]

Some useful information here

"Beards, spectacles and sweatbands give a bad impression"

Oh dear

[Copepod]

In mountain marathons & adventure racing, it's common for some photos to be used in race reports (eg http://www.sleepmonsters.co.uk) and huge numbers to be available for sale to racers. Might a similar model work in orienteering?

[Adrian]

I was surprised that PhilJ said it was difficult to find good action shots. I remember loads of photos being posted in the wake of several events, and a search on Google Images or Flickr turns up lots of useable photos, many of them beardless!

And in response to Copepod, professional photographers have attended big O events in the past, snapping dozens of runners, and the photos have been available for purchase from online galeries. The example that springs to mind is Jk 09.

[AAH]

What would really help the sport would be if some of those who take a lot of good photos could get some of them into the image archives used by newspapers, magazines etc. For example, if you go to Getty Images and do a search for orienteering you see lots of the 'not real orienteering here is a nice picture of a compass or some people standing in walking kit looking at an OS map' pictures which the mainstream media keep using any time there is a reference to orienteering, because that's what is in their image archives, and virtually none of the type of photos we'd all consider to be good pictures of orienteering.

[PhilJ]

I was surprised that PhilJ said it was difficult to find good action shots

I agree there are lots of action shots available, but the issue is ownership/copyright. If I were to "save as" an O shot off flickr/picassa and then use it to publicise an event there maybe recourse a) to the photographer b) the subject in the photo. I could get around a) by asking the flickr/picassa account holder for permission to use the photo but how do I ask "person a/b/c" in the photo that we are ok to use their image?

Any links to the websites you have found Adrian would be appreciated to see if they can be used.

A quickie - are you able to use Google Earth images for publicity, are they copyrighted,as you can save an image as a jpeg?

[PhilJ]

And in response to Copepod, professional photographers have attended big O events in the past, snapping dozens of runners, and the photos have been available for purchase from online galeries. The example that springs to mind is Jk 09.

That was an earlier point I made, shouldn't BO have spent say £500.00 on purchasing said photos and then made them available to all club publicity officers? I have purchased photos from these companies in the past of my children and from the OMM of me and my partner and they are great quality. I suppose there might have been copyright/legal reasons why they could not be re-used in general publicity?

[EddieH]

Most of the professional O shots are desined for personal purchase merely showing said person on the run in. These are scarcely the shots that demonstrate our fantastic sport.

Malcolm Aldridge took an amazing shot of one of our 12 year olds legging it over the branches - it got shortlisted for WorlofO's photo of the year and received lots of votes. I cannot find it on the web now, but if you are interested I would imagine that Malcolm would be happy to let you have it. I can put you in touch if wanted.

[PMG]

Peraphs this and some others on this page fit action?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/forgeroadp ... hotostream

Peter