Who is the champion?

[graeme]

Would an M50 also be entered into the M45, M40 and M35 finals? Or is the choice only between actual age class and elite?

I'm starting a new thread, as we just had this discussion in Scotland. Take a look at the results here.

http://www.rstrain.ndtilda.co.uk/result ... 2._40.html

This is the course on which W50+ is awarded. Given this information, who would you award the W50, 55 and 60 trophies to? To save you the bother, these are the over-50 runners.

43rd Sheila Strain ELO W60 23:19
47th Pauline McAdam STAG W55 25:46
52nd Sally Lindsay ESOC W55 27:20
57th Margaret Dalgleish ESOC W55 29:45
59th Amelia Petrie CLYDE W55 30:21
60th Rhona Fraser INVOC W55 33:55
62nd Katy Lessells ESOC W60 36:30
63rd Margaret Dearman MOR W60 40:54

If you just want to vote, I added a poll for the four plausible options. The basic questions are...

Should someone get all the prizes?
If not, would you rather have your own age class prize, or a younger one?
Should there be no champion when there are eligible people?

[madmike]

It depends on rules for competition:

either:

W50 nobody
W55 Pauline
W60 Shelia

or:

W50 Shelia
W55 Pauline
W60 Katy

[229]

.

[andy]

The correct answer is: Whatever the rules defined before the competition took place dictate.

[Mrs H]

I think it depends on which class they entered and how the competition was presented.
I'm inclined to think

W50 nobody
W55 Pauline
W60 Shelia (sic)

unless it was an open W50+ competition then Sheila was "The Champion" because there can be only one.....

[graeme]

Obviously it should be whatever the published rules were. But I'm interested in what you think is a satisfactory outcome, i.e. what the rules should be written to achieve.

[andypat]

Well my views on running up are well documented and tend to be disputed only by better orienteers!

I think you run your age class, or open (ie M/W 21) and if you run up or down in any other age class you are non-comp. End of story.

I think that means I agree with Mrs H.

[Scott]

I think you should only be eligible for a prize in the "closed" age class that you chose when you entered.

The conflict when "closed" and "open" age classes share a course (eg. M18/20 with M21 at the British Middles) is a trickier one, and I'm not sure what the solution there should be.

[rocky]

To anybody who says "nobody" for W50, would you say the same if the three age groups in question were W21, W35 and W40?

[Scott]

Personally, if the three age classes were W21, W35 and W40, I'd given the W21 (Women's Open) prize to the fastest woman, regardless of how old she was and which class she had entered. I'd then given the W35 prize to the fastest person to have entered W35, and W40 to the fastest person to have entered W40. If somebody won both the Women's Open and W40 prizes then good for them.

But in this case, W50 should go to the fastest person to have entered W50. If nobody entered W50, then nobody gets the prize.

[Mrs H]

To anybody who says "nobody" for W50, would you say the same if the three age groups in question were W21, W35 and W40?

Yes - unless someone specifically entered those classes. I can't see any justification for the Sally,Pauline, Sheila option - sorry Sal!

It really hinges on how entry to the competition was presented - we can see the results presented in a composite style - but were competitors asked which class (age class) they wanted to run or which course, and was the competition styled an age class competition or a category competition ie Supervets a la NUL.

Unless you know that you really come to a definitive decision.

[greywolf]

Yep. You get (or at least, are eligible for) a prize in the class you enter

This year the vets at the Scottish sprints was clearly structured by 5 year age classes, so "no-one, pauline, shiela" is appropriate, and by the same reckoning Dixie won M50, but not M45 (why was Dave R d'qd?) [shame it wasn't like that in 2010... ]

M & W21 are special cases, because these are Open races, rather than M/W21 races per se.

[andy]

what the rules should be written to achieve.

in my opinion:
M/W21 - whoever is fastest on the 'open' course.
Everything else - whoever is fastest within whichever age class they entered.

Perhaps we should rename M/W21 to 'MOpen' and 'WOpen' or similar. I even tried to turn down a trophy for M21 as I'd been beaten by an M20 and an M35. It's in a box somewhere in my flat at the moment...

[awk]

Age classes are there because we get slower as we get older. If we didn't, then we wouldn't have them. Same with the male/female splits.

Based on that - the trophy should go to the first woman over the age class limit. Thus, Sheila is the champion at W50, W55 and W60; any other result is, to me, completely irrational and a nonsense (whatever the rules say).

[greywolf]

Not sure if the bigger question Graeme's asking is how many separate age classes should there be at these sort of competitions..

My feeling is that 5 year age class races are appropriate for national champs & JK and are probably necessary at Scottish 6 days etc to manage large fields, but otherwise they are a bit of a joke, especially where in practice multiple classes run the same course. I have no problem with turning up at Nopesport League races and competing in a 15-year age category, on the other hand I was rather embarrassed last year when someone congratulated me on "winning" a SOL, when the quickest athletes in my age class had run up, and my course was actually won by someone from an older age class...