St Andrews was the best urban race in the UK to date? Anyone that hasn't tried it and assumes it's easy doesn't know what they are talking about. It was really challenging.
Regarding bracken at Tentsmuir, is there any? I can't recall meeting any. There are areas of ferns which, whilst they conceal the forest floor, they do not tie you up. Also I believe they are evergreen and will be the same all year round meaning that Tentsmuir is an ideal area for summer/ autumn orienteering even though a late start will always be an advantage.
Anyway congratulations ESOC - one of the best ever months of Scottish orienteering, and I think I enjoyed this one even more than the others.
st andrews race
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Re: st andrews race
You are right of course Eddie. Ferns not bracken. The final details noted they had "taken over" - like you I felt relatively unimpeded by them. Agree with you about the late start. Definitely an advantage towards the end of the blue. Probably an early start better for St Andrews though as the tourists were out in force later on! Mind you I was directed down the correct close by a group of scandinavian tourists sitting at an outdoor cafe table when I hesitated to double check my map just before 24. I got the impression they were taking there "job" as marshalls very seriously!
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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Re: st andrews race
Come on then, Andy and EddieH; do share the technique for being unimpeded by fern!
I have checked the blue and short brown courses on routegadget and I can see these courses "missed" the forest block inbetween controls 15 and 18 (blue) or 14 & 18 (sh brown) which was shoulder-high fern on green straight line route 13-14. Breast stroke fighting technique for the early starters whilst regretting my route choice and an easy matter for the late starters to find the path. Hey-ho that's orienteering for you.
I have checked the blue and short brown courses on routegadget and I can see these courses "missed" the forest block inbetween controls 15 and 18 (blue) or 14 & 18 (sh brown) which was shoulder-high fern on green straight line route 13-14. Breast stroke fighting technique for the early starters whilst regretting my route choice and an easy matter for the late starters to find the path. Hey-ho that's orienteering for you.
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mappingmum - brown
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Re: st andrews race
Shoulder high ferns? Sounds like you took a detour to Borneo......
Maybe that was the patch the planner was warning us about in the final details? I definitely took a few longer route choices round the paths than I would elsewhere as the path network is so tempting here.
Maybe that was the patch the planner was warning us about in the final details? I definitely took a few longer route choices round the paths than I would elsewhere as the path network is so tempting here.
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Re: st andrews race
mappingmum wrote:Come on then, Andy and EddieH; do share the technique for being unimpeded by fern!
I didn't have a problem with it as I started at about 1.05 - well tracked up by then...
and (for those who care?!) I did run a little faster yesterday but got very tired at the end and was plodding round the final technical/fern infested section
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
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Re: st andrews race
Your sprint finish seems to have suffered too
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Re: st andrews race
I totally agree with Eddie for me this was the best street race I have ever done and I have done most of them. Perth was great, London really good but St Andrews was even better. Plenty of route choice, fantastic buildings and we were even kept away from the busiest parts of the town, just fantastic. Well done to ESOC. Well worth the 6 1/2 hour drive, each way, to get there even if my bum and legs still haven't recovered from the long drive home.
I'd rather be orienteering in a Scottish Forest.
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Re: st andrews race
mappingmum wrote:Come on then, Andy and EddieH; do share the technique for being unimpeded by fern!
Until EddieH pointed it out on Sunday, I'd never appreciated the difference. But the fern (many fronds coming from a single crown) IS much easier to run through than an equivalent level of bracken (multiple stalks). So I did cut a few more corners than I otherwise would have, and generally seemed to be gaining time by doing so. Thanks Eddie!
Even so, St.Andrews was the highlight of the weekend. The problem with cheerleading for urban races is I've seldom get to run them, so this was a real treat.
(Control 2L/3S aside: Jane was especially peeved at seeing someone heading the "wrong" side of the wall, and then see her again coming out of the control ahead having clearly jumped it. People obviously feel cheated by confusing control descriptions and have no scruples about "cheating" themselves: and if we can't police it, what is the point?)
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: st andrews race
graeme wrote:
(Control 2L/3S aside: Jane was especially peeved at seeing someone heading the "wrong" side of the wall, and then see her again coming out of the control ahead having clearly jumped it. People obviously feel cheated by confusing control descriptions and have no scruples about "cheating" themselves: and if we can't police it, what is the point?)
Think thats being overly negative Graeme. Firstly - I dont see whats confusing about Wall NE side as a control description. From the map the wall is clearly uncrossable. If Jane recognised the person I'd certainyly have no qualms about reporting it for further investigation. I'm sure you wouldnt either - so i assume she didnt. (Mind you as I recall I dont think i could have leaped that wall - must have been about 5ft).
Secondly - Can we not police it? You could look at having race numbers - or even something as straightforward as having a start official note down what each competitor is wearing and telling them the reason why. I'm sure that would act as a deterrent if nothing else.
I'm not in favour generally of mapping things as uncrossable when they are not, but I dont think that was the case here.
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Re: st andrews race
I have added some race photos plus tourist shots of St Andrews to my Facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... 18b48a3616
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... 18b48a3616
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Freefall - addict
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Re: st andrews race
andypat wrote:have no qualms about reporting it for further investigation.
Did you ever hear of anyone doing that successfully?
If I find what I regard as an unfair forest control (say, a pit buried in bracken), I've never had a problem giving it away or with others doing so.
Other clearly feel that having navigated to the feature is good enough.
Yes, we police it, but that costs resources and the fact is we choose not to. The point here is that a perfectly good non-confusing alternative exists for the planner (the building some 2m away) which is exactly the same leg.
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Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: st andrews race
graeme wrote:andypat wrote:have no qualms about reporting it for further investigation.
Did you ever hear of anyone doing that successfully?
The point here is that a perfectly good non-confusing alternative exists for the planner (the building some 2m away) which is exactly the same leg.
No - but in my limited experience thats been due to the witness being unsure of the identity of the person. Happened in the Erskine WOC selection sprint race as a matter of fact where someone was witnessed by a marshall crossing an uncrossable wall/hedge junction but they didnt get a decent look at them.
exactly the same leg? No - with your control description its now a pretty pointless leg with no real decision to take regarding route choice which I am sure you wouldnt dream of letting the planner get away with if you were controlling! I cant help feeling you are missing the point of urban O.
Looking forward to 19th Dec all the same
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Re: st andrews race
andypat wrote:graeme wrote:andypat wrote:have no qualms about reporting it for further investigation.
Did you ever hear of anyone doing that successfully?
No
If someone had come to me at download on Saturday and I said 'I saw X jumping over this wall', I'd have said 'umm, ok, great, what do you want me to do about it?'
The only thing you could do is ask the person in question and hope they confess to it, otherwise there really is nothing you can do. If a marshal has seen someone doing it then that's a different story.
I almost went to the wrong side of that wall too, but noticed it was ambiguous and checked my descriptions quickly enough
There are also some photos on the ESOC picasa site:
http://picasaweb.google.com/ESOC.Gallery/StAndrewsRace#
http://picasaweb.google.com/ESOC.Gallery/SOL6Tentsmuir#
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
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Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
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Re: st andrews race
St Andrew's looks wonderful in the photos. Note to self: Must go to next Urban race there, come what may
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Re: st andrews race
andy wrote:
If someone had come to me at download on Saturday and I said 'I saw X jumping over this wall', I'd have said 'umm, ok, great, what do you want me to do about it?'
We had a good discussion about this here Infact I followed it up in a CompassSport article here
Yes Tatty you missed a treat!
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