Phoenix Long O

[AndyC]

As Freefall (who is organising) hasn't done it yet I'll just remind everyone that the Phoenix Long O is in College Valley in the Cheviots on 17th & 18th July this year (earlier than normal for access reasons) and the closing date if you want to be sure of a map and avoid a surcharge is coming up fast on 5th July.
As they were persuading me to help put controls out the organising team assured me that "it is nothing like Keilder" so it should be very enjoyable
http://www.newcastleorienteering.org.uk/phoenix/phoenix.html

[AndyC]

On the other hand it has just been announced that the event has been cancelled through lack of entries.............

[IanD]

the event has been cancelled through lack of entries

Really disappointed to hear this; I like the Phoenix, although very rarely manage the 700 mile round trip to take part - and I wasn't going to this year. Must be gutting for the organisers after all that work.

However, I wonder whether sufficient account has been taken of the tendency for people entering online to do so just before the closing date. In the old days of snail mail and manual work for entries secretaries, (at least some) people used to make an effort to enter early because of the unreliability of the mail and a recognition that a spread workload was easier for the entries person to manage. Now with instant entry and automatic processing, many people leave entries until the last minute. Why pay money earlier than necessary when plans may change tomorrow?

I would urge organisers who may cancel an event because of low entries to give people some incentive to enter before their decision point, possibly by having a price hike, possibly just by asking for entries before a given date.

[AndyC]

Actually the price hike was due at the end of this week but the numbers are really low as far as I can see so they've obviously made the decision at a point at which a full refund can be given and which allows people to change accomodation arrangements and the like.
I feel sorry for Adrian Barnes who was limping round a local event recently having blistered his feet visiting control sites for the Phoenix.
In discussion with one of the NATO Officials (neither of us is directly involved in the Phoenix) while we were waiting for juniors to complete a training event on Saturday he commented that the Phoenix isn't easy to publicise via BOF because it is run under fell running rules not orienteering rules. The registration and publicity via that route are therefore for the "Junior" event held alongside the main event.
I'm not sure if that event will still happen but it is much easier to deploy so it may still happen ??? (Edit; NATO website says that is cancelled as well)
I also feel guilty that I hadn't entered but having dnf'd and finished last (one day only) in the last two years I thought I needed more training before I made another attempt at embarrassing myself further.

[LostAgain]

How many entries were needed to be classed as viable?

I do think the competition handicaps itself by operating under FRA rules. Surely the levy is not so punishing that it could not be under BO rules. I appreciate the efforts for the Juniors but this seems a method of sidestepping levy.

With the loss of the Capricorn and now the Phoenix, I'm surprised there is so little enthusiasm for Long-O.

[Strider]

With the loss of the Capricorn and now the Phoenix, I'm surprised there is so little enthusiasm for Long-O.

The Capricorn is back, albeit it in a stripped down format:

http://www.pfo.org.uk/Capricorn%20home.htm

And I agree, it's a shame that there is so little Long-O now on the calendar - it's either all (ie. 2 day MM's) or nothing now......

S.

[zulu_warrior]

[quote="LostAgain"]How many entries were needed to be classed as viable?

Surely the levy is not so punishing that it could not be under BO rules. [/quote]

We thought 70+ a viable number.

FRA = £12, BOF the last year we paid £400. Economic sense or what!

[Mrs H]

I attempted to organise a long o a couple of years ago but had to call it off because of the lack of early interest. The problem was it required quite a bit of infrastructure - ie bussing, multiple maps event centre and manned exchange points etc and the distinct possibility of loosing a substantial amount of money caused me to lose my nerve and call it off before too much energy had been expended on it

[frog]

We've had an annual long o for 3-4 years now. In many ways it's simple as we run 3 courses just based on length and you don't have to worry about TD levels and getting the finishing times right. On the other hand getting controls out and back is a major task and this year we had to pay £3 each for our waterproof maps which meant we made a minimal profit, and finding out who the landowners are for huge areas of hillside can be tricky. Half the Ochils is owned by foreign businessses, someone in Leichtenstein owns a big chunk.
I've never done the phoenix but used to do the Capricorn when it was a 2 day affair. That was pre-kids though and as the Phoenix now falls in our school holidays I wouldn't do it at the moment.
Our Long O sounds much less complex than Mrs H's planned event though. This year it started and finished at a pub which was good, although the rural pubs we've used as a base round the Ochils don't do cheap food which is a shame..

[bac0990]

What a great pity. We could make it this year due to it being pulled forward but have enjoyed it each time we have done it.

I note that CLOK are putting on a long O in September.

Do not know if this is to be a regular feature but it least it gives us an event in the NE this autumn.

[The Loofa]

Monday night I rang the bunkhouse listed in Phoenix accommodation. Booked myself in - no mention was made of a possible cancellation.
I then bought myself a rail ticket (£99) and tried to enter online - this failed for reasons unknown, but I expected to have another go Tuesday.
But Tuesday morning I see its cancelled.
Scream!!
Most people enter marginally before the closing date. So cancelling several days before isn't too clever. And some sort of warning that cancellation was being considered would be helpful too

[frog]

We had only had 1 or 2 entries 2 weeks before our long o. Most came in the week before the event, which I regard as fairly normal for orienteering. Unless you're doing an event that's known for getting oversubscribed or there's an incentive to enter early then for most competitors there's no rush and nearer the time you have a better idea of your fitness to choose your class.
I'm planning to do the purple thistle and have booked accomodation but won't be entering until near the closing date so less chance of me changing my class at the last minute.
It's a shame they couldn't have posted something on the SOA website and whatever English equivalents there are and on Nopesport warning people they were thinking of cancelling, or brought forward the closing date, although I hate closing dates more than a week before the event.

[AndyC]

I do think the competition handicaps itself by operating under FRA rules. Surely the levy is not so punishing that it could not be under BO rules. I appreciate the efforts for the Juniors but this seems a method of sidestepping levy.
.

While I'm not involved in the organisation (just a potential helper) I understand that it isn't a financial criteria for the event being under FRA rules rather than BOF but more to do with the difficulty of visiting sites over a very wide area immediately before the event -a BOF requirement not needed for FRA.

When I checked the entry list just before I started this thread I was struck by how low the numbers were -hence my decision to help the team (without consulting them -they'll tell me off about that on Sunday) and try and raise interest by posting here. Clearly I was too late.
I do suspect that the date change is very relevant -some regulars wouldn't even have thought about it yet but they have obviously made the decision that sufficient number wouldn't have appeared in time
And Loofa -If my post had anything to do with your deciding to enter I personally apologise but I was just trying to help -famous last words

[LostAgain]

We thought 70+ a viable number.

FRA = £12, BOF the last year we paid £400. Economic sense or what!

If I nderstand correctly you had 30+ entries with a week to go. I would have thought the 70 minimum would have been achieved, since most people will enter in the few days before.

I do not think the BOF levy would have handicapped the event, you would have wider exposure to your potential customer base from the BOF calendar.

I suspect you have pulled the rug early on what would probably have been a viable event. Even better under BOF rules where juniors would be actually competitive on the courses

The date of the event is probably not an issue as this traditionally used to be the Capricorn date, which had good numbers before it's demise.

I'm sure you are equally disappointed and did not take the decision lightly.

[frog]

Why do you need 70+ for the event to be viable? Are you hiring an expensive hall or something?
We had 55 entries for our long O which was the highest entry so far, I think the first year there were under 20, but there was a thunder storm.
Our event is only 1 day though, but I would have thought that if you've sorted out control sites and done the basic planning and permission finding then going ahead with 50-60 would be fine.
It depends how far away your officials live though. If they wouldn't be able to claim expenses it may make you reconsider, but most folk who put on O events do so as much for putting something back into the sport as anything else.