was mulling over the situation with relays in britain. imjust gonna talk about the guys here but its all equally applicable to the girls classes as well.
my proposition is abolishing classes such as 'short open' or 'medium open' and making the premier class shorter.
imagine this, the mens premier relay comprises three x full classic races, 90 minutes of proper bo orienteering for the daddies. then the winners are gonna be the club which has the best three senior guys. an ideal situation, but there will be next to no competition as most clubs will struggle to find three runners prepared to run a race such as this, especially if one of the team is weaker and only running to fill a space and is liable to finish 10-20 minutes down even with a good run. - while he may be up for the challenge the rest of his team will know that no matter what they are probably not going to win and will not take the race seriously.
now consider the present situation. the mens premier typically has a leading time of 3x45 minutes. the team with the three best m21s typically still does best but now the top juniors can compete as well as the slightly past it seniors. so the reults will not change at the top, but the field will be of a moderate size and the race more interesting.
but, slower or less able navigators will be put off, and since its there, will want to run the short open. it seems ludicrous to me that there are so many more team running short open than premier: aeg at british relays:
mens premier 23, short open 39, while in the girls it was worse:
womens premier 13 (!) womens short 28!
so i propose that the premier class be made up of legs with a elt of 35-25-35, and all the other open classes be abolished. this should allow all runners over 18 to get a competitive run, and no one should be discouraged because of the distance. a 4-5km leg shouldn't be too much for anyone???
also, in this situation, the argument for skipping the classic race is weakened, seriously, is it going to affect your relay performance all that much?
yours, rocky
more relay spraff
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i think rocky's nailed it. i would so much rather have 100 teams running much shorter courses, than 3 relays of 30. it would certainly improve the atmosphere at relays as a lot more peopl will be running the same race. the best orienteers will still run the fastest times, but like rocky said, a lot more people will be able to take part.
The reward of a thing well done is to have done it.
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Supersaint - team nopesport
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i agree with you 100% rocky. i love runing the short (with ESOC :S) as it gives us a competetive chance, which we wouldn't get in the premier class, and it is difficult to persuade people to run longer courses. The only issue people might have with it is the fact that some might complain about the fact they are not getting a very long run out of it, though this might not be such a problem with the current hype of shorter/sprint events.
someone should take the plunge next year and adopt it, have 4 classes: men, women, ad-hoc, junior. Maybe have different competitions within the mens and womens (like x-country) where the best team made up of M/W 50+ gets a prize etc etc.
someone should take the plunge next year and adopt it, have 4 classes: men, women, ad-hoc, junior. Maybe have different competitions within the mens and womens (like x-country) where the best team made up of M/W 50+ gets a prize etc etc.
Andrew Dalgleish (INT)
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
Views expressed on Nopesport are my own.
- andy
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Oooh, pop me down in the yes camp for that plan. Like it a lot. The crazy chaos of elites and punters sprinting to be the first to the start kite. It'd be mayhem, but the kinda mayhem that's oh so good ...
"Don't try and fulfil your maximum potential, it's disappointing when you realise that all you are capable of doing is eating less cheese." Dylan Moran
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Migsy - white
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I noticed in the other thread on relays there was a lot of moaning about elite atheletes running the men's short. It seems that, although running a sprint race is now an acceptable option for high end competitors, short relays are not. Is there any real reason why both classic and short relays couldn't be run (possibly even on seperate days as with the individual champs)?
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PeterG - diehard
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Ah yes the holy grail! This is the simple way you make people run the Open the day after a long classic race - make it shorter. I can see so clearly now the rain has gone.
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FatBoy - addict
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One of the main reason myself, Anthony and Colin ran the Mens Short at the British was the length of the Mens Open (admittedly it was myself and Anthony who were more keen). After having dragged our (very) tired legs round the JK relay there didn't seem much point in doing the same again at the British. Instead we had a much more managable distance which we could push it hard on. The fact that we won makes just makes it better
If the Open had been shorter we wouldn't have needed to make this decision. Having a shorter leg length will surely make the race more competitve aswell. How's about just dropping the Mens Open and renaming the Short as the Open??
Chris
If the Open had been shorter we wouldn't have needed to make this decision. Having a shorter leg length will surely make the race more competitve aswell. How's about just dropping the Mens Open and renaming the Short as the Open??
Chris
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Lil' God'rs - orange
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Like it, like it,
LOVE IT.
this has to be done. what an absolute laugh it would be for a start, and so much more competitive. even the real old boys like the M60+'s could have a bash at jon, jamie et al.
bring it on, someone, please.
LOVE IT.
this has to be done. what an absolute laugh it would be for a start, and so much more competitive. even the real old boys like the M60+'s could have a bash at jon, jamie et al.
bring it on, someone, please.
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bendover - addict
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PeterG wrote:I noticed in the other thread on relays there was a lot of moaning about elite atheletes running the men's short. It seems that, although running a sprint race is now an acceptable option for high end competitors, short relays are not.
You totally missed the point then.
The problem is that many of our better orienteers are not running
in the Premier class: which is thereby devalued as an event. The
solution is to make the event more attractive. Maybe shortening it
is the right option, but there are plenty of people capable of running a 45 minute winning time course (M18L-M45L sort of length), both days at the JK - so I dont believe its a physical problem to do the same at the British.
[OK - just saw Chris' post - its a tougher for elites running for two hours the day before. The obvious solution to that would be to have the relays first...]
It is an attitude problem. And fixing it needs drastic steps - leg 1 of the
premier relay is a very intimidating place to be now - very good orienteers can find themselves dropped right off the back, and running alone isn't much of a relay experience.
Simple solution is to combine the short and premier (and 35 and 40 etc) into a single class with legs to suit all. In fact, you could combine the whole lot with a handicap system based on course lengths rather than ages.
Chris and I will now have to look for a relay to organise.
Graeme
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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All i can say is...
I WANT TO RUN IN ONE OF THOSE RELAYS NOW
...sounds like quality- more runners, more atmosphere, more competition...
kinda of Tio Mila style with masses upon masses of people- but in the daytime!
I WANT TO RUN IN ONE OF THOSE RELAYS NOW
...sounds like quality- more runners, more atmosphere, more competition...
kinda of Tio Mila style with masses upon masses of people- but in the daytime!
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mat-d - light green
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Graeme wrote:Chris and I will now have to look for a relay to organise.
Graeme
Hmmm - do you think we have the power to do what we want and ignore the rules
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Lil' God'rs - orange
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Lil' God'rs wrote:Hmmm - do you think we have the power to do what we want and ignore the rules
Think you could but whether anyone who hasn't read this topic would turn up....
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FatBoy - addict
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