Printers

[Red Adder]

Can anyone offer some advice (and costs ?) on a good laser printer suitable for local map production.

Generally print at A4 (though larger could be useful) and have areas with significant amounts of yellow or green so ink costs are a significant factor.

[seabird]

We have just bought a Xerox 8560 which uses solid ink technology. The reproduction is very good. Unfortunately the ink does not fuse well and on waterproof paper we have experienced significant print loss. As a result we are reverting to using 120gms paper and plastic bags for local events. First trial tonight - will see if there is any improvement.

Somewhat regretting not having updated with Konica Minolta. Our old Magicolor had given excellent service.

[RJ]

The Xerox 8560 has excellent reproduction, yes! The printer comes set up to print in enhanced mode, which puts quite a lot of toner on the paper. We use the standard setting, and glossy paper setting, which slows it down through the fuser. Also in OCAD we set the line width at 80% in options which gives very sharp images. People who are rough when handling the maps and fold/refold often will get some loss of toner on the folds. Most people are fine though. Printing at A4 also leads to less folding and therefore less toner damage. Still it is all a compromise. The Xerox toner is much more convenient and works out cheaper, plus you have zero wastage, and can tell when the toner is running out. Good system. We have printed several thousand maps so far and have had some (limited) problems with toner loss.

[MIE]

I also have a Xerox Phaser 8560 and find the repro good. Using the glossy paper option
and standard print (instead of enhanced) gives a good output on waterproof material
(Pretex). To date I have had no lose of ink on folds, but the real test will come
on the night event on Saturday. I print POC maps on 120gsm paper in enhanced mode
as it gives a nice crisp output and impresses the public.

[frog]

the x8560 is a bit pricy. Anyone got a cheaper printer that does decent maps, we need a new printer at the moment and it would be handy to get one that does maps too, but trying to persuade non-orienteering bloke that we need a £300+ printer so I can spend yet more time and money on orienteering stuff might not go down too well.

[RJ]

Xerox appear to be doing some pre-Xmas promotions at the moment. Try a few websites. The price of the toner is the critical item. A full set of compatible solid ink blocks (4 of each colour) is the same price as a single toner refill cartridge for the Minolta. But it all depends on how many maps you print. We do about 10k a year so we get the cost benefits, with the maps working out at 12-18p each, on Pretex.

[frog]

We wouldn't use anywhere near that number, it would just be handy to do a few for local events, we'd probably still stick to Stirling Surveys for our main maps.
Anyone have a home printer that does reasonable maps with cheap ink?
At the moment I have an HP deskjet940c so suspect most printers would be better.

[PG]

A full set of compatible solid ink blocks (4 of each colour) is the same price as a single toner refill cartridge for the Minolta. But it all depends on how many maps you print. We do about 10k a year so we get the cost benefits, with the maps working out at 12-18p each, on Pretex.

We're also thinking of getting a laser printer, but we had thought we should expect to cost around 25-30p per print, so I'd like to understand the costing analysis.

Phaser 8560 Black Compatible £34.67 Xerox Genuine £56.76 3,400 pages
Phaser 8560 Colours Compatible £52.83 Xerox Genuine £84.20 3,400 pages

So buying a full set will cost £193/£336. I assume that they would each last 3,400 pages, so after printing 3,400 would all need replacing, so cost = 5.7p/9.9 per page.

The Konica Minolta Magicolour 2430 Compatible Cartridges cost £265 (£507 genuine Minolta) for a full set of 3 colours+ black for 4,500 pages, so cost = 5.9p/11.2p. Other models seem about the same.

These seem fairly similar; am I missing something? And are orienteering maps more densely coloured than the manufacturer's assumption used in calculating cartridge life? Have people had problems with compatible cartridges for lasers (it's all we buy for our inkjet)?

[MIE]

"PG These seem fairly similar; am I missing something? And are orienteering maps more densely coloured than the manufacturer's assumption used in calculating cartridge life?

A quick look at my 8560 usage report suggests that, on average I have 35%-40%
coverage. Xerox, along with, in theory, the rest of the manufacturers, suggest that the
usage model they use for giving the number of pages per cartridge/colour set is based
on 20% coverage. Interestingly my Yellow usage is twice that of the other 3 colours but
it is used in generating all the greens, yellows and brown on maps.

[NeilC]

To date I have had no loss of ink on folds, but the real test will come
on the night event on Saturday.

And a good test it was to. Unfortunately I had to award an F. I managed to find 2 controls by wandering around a white bit of map but then decided to head back to the finish whilst I still knew approximately where it was. Shame because I rather enjoyed the area and the first half-dozen controls.

[MIE]

To date I have had no loss of ink on folds, but the real test will come
on the night event on Saturday.

And a good test it was to. Unfortunately I had to award an F. I managed to find 2 controls by wandering around a white bit of map but then decided to head back to the finish whilst I still knew approximately where it was. Shame because I rather enjoyed the area and the first half-dozen controls.

Only an F -- I'd have said "unclassified"

Further testing required

[lakesorunner]

A quick look at my 8560 usage report suggests that, on average I have 35%-40%
coverage. Xerox, along with, in theory, the rest of the manufacturers, suggest that the
usage model they use for giving the number of pages per cartridge/colour set is based
on 20% coverage. Interestingly my Yellow usage is twice that of the other 3 colours but
it is used in generating all the greens, yellows and brown on maps.

That seems VERY high... Normally, manufacturers quote coverage of 5% (per colour), but printing maps does give lop-sided figures. I am using a Bizhub C252 (big A3 printer) which gives figures of around 8% yellow, 6-7% magenta, but blue is normally down around 2%. I have also used a Xerox 7400 and a couple of the smaller Konicas over the years... You can print 'lighter' to save toner, but you do need to be careful, esp. on pale yellow with small blocks of runnable wood or vice verca.
Depending on the numbers you print, it may be better to enter into a maintenance contract which includes all toners/fusers etc. Advantages are that it gives you a guarenteed costing for the next 1-5 years..., and stops you having to go out and look for consumables. It also gives you the option to print the colours 'heavier' without worrying about the cost per map...
re: compatibles... I have printed maps for LOC for over 6 years now, and have ALWAYS used genuine products - yes, they cost more, but you are dealing with a known product which never seems to alter.

[seabird]

Spent Sunday control checking on the Pennine Moors in a gale.

One side was printed by a Magicolor; the other side on the Xerox 8560. No print loss on the Magicolor side; substantial areas of print loss on the Xerox side (printed with the recommended glossy setting). The print loss was not just around folds either.

[lakesorunner]

I remain to be convinced by the solid ink technology - toner does seem to fuse better to any paper (either 'normal', silk, or pretex)

[Red Adder]

I'm aware of 3/4 instances of compatibles totally gumming up and writing off Epson Inkjets, but having printed thousands of maps on a C82 and C86 using genuine inks have not yet had a problem - i.e. the extra cost of genuine Epson inks seems to be worth it.