FOCUS magazine (for the elite?)

[Snail]

I'm looking forward to there being proper S (i.e. middle distance) championships for the age classes.

And when we do, how about encouraging BOF to reallocate the current BOC and JK "S" course trophies to the Middle and Sprint distance age class champions?

[LostAgain]

It's the way people like Lost Again and Gnitworp are claiming we run short courses because we are pot hunters and title seekers when they plainly haven't got a clue why we do it - there is something vaguely unpleasant about their attitude - a sort of sports apartheit .

There was certainly no intention on my part to suggest this . A casual glance at the results of the short course often shows a winner by quite some distance over the "genuine" short course runners. These winers will often be found running the long course at other events.

I think that the "Middle Distance" in not quite the same thing as the "short". The short is available when there is also a long course, thereby segregating the competitors. The Middle Distance course will see little segregation other than those choosing to run out of class.

I suspect that there may be a potential for there to be many more people running out of class to get a longer run, perceived as better "value for money" at Middle Distance.

[EddieH]

You are quite right Mrs H. I sometimes admire short course winners that attend prizegivings where they are shoved away in a corner. The worst was a JK or Brtish (I don't remember which) where the winner of L went centre stage, second place was downstage left, third was downstage right, and the S course winner was called up offstage. It was all highly embarassing for everyone.

At last last year's nonsensical Scottish Champs prizegiving the veteran class (winners only if I remember right) were called up to a podium and presented with ....... nothing whatsoever! Reading this year's details I fear something similar this year. "There will be mementos for 1st, 2nd and 3rd in all elite and junior classes".

[frog]

I don't mind not getting anything as an adult, There are so many courses it would either put the entry fee up if all courses got prizes or mean someone spent ages writing certificates. I like having the sew on badges to aim for at the 6 days, but haven't managed better than bronze so far.
I think having prizes and recognition for juniors is important to keep them motivated, although my son moans that he hasn't won anything since he moved from B to A, perhaps for juniors number of prizes could be linked to numbers competing in a class. Kids like certificates as well, so I might favour certificates for all under 12 competitors at championship events.

[Gnitworp]

It's the way people like Lost Again and Gnitworp are claiming we run short courses because we are pot hunters.....

Perhaps you can show me, Mrs H, where in my posts I call anyone a pothunter or, indeed, refer to anyone's motives for doing any course.

I simply state that you can't logically be called or considered a champion if you don't run the Championship course, whether or not you want to be.

For instance, anyone viewing the BOC results on the Web, without the necessary inside knowledge, would have no idea which was more meritorious, winning the 'Short' or winning the 'Long' course. Calling the 'Long' courses 'Championship', as I suggested in my earlier post, would, I think, solve the problem.

[Becks]

A casual glance at the results of the short course often shows a winner by quite some distance over the "genuine" short course runners.

Hee hee. I remember a British Champs where I was recovering from illness and so moved onto the short course so as not to miss out on a great area. I got back to assembly half an hour after my run to overhear someone getting a little angry about my pothunting, and so went to declare myself non comp. Looking at the results later that day, the person who'd been going on about me pothunting had actually won the short course themselves, by a margin of at least six minutes. That made me giggle a lot.

[EddieH]

But Becks why on earth would you be non competetive? You have as much right to enter Short as anyone else. You win the course - you are not British Champion. The logical conclusion to your self declaration is that whoever wins a short course declares themselves non comp.

[graeme]

They just don't get it do they? We run short courses because (for whatever reason) we like the distance not because we think we might win a trophy or a title.

I don't get it. Even though, exactly like you, I choose courses because (for whatever reason) I like the distance. Being sufficiently elderly, I have choice of 11 options, but younger improvers have far fewer.

I can well understand that you may not like the distance chosen for the fittest people in your age group, what I can't understand is why there's only one level of "unfitness" allowed per age group. If you aren't superfit, how should BOF know exactly how unfit you actually are (and assign you the distance)? and why should an unfit M21 be fitter than an unfit M40?

At last last year's nonsensical Scottish Champs prizegiving the veteran class (winners only if I remember right) were called up to a podium and presented with ....... nothing whatsoever!

I guess that's because someone failed to return a trophy: I got a rather ugly bit of wood and brass. But at BOC this year there was some disgruntlement from the winner of M10B (why not M8A?) being left to mill around offstage until someone dug out a buff.

[SeanC]

Looking at the BOC website, adult improvers could have run any of the following depending on their ability

Orange
Red
Light Green
M/W21N
M/W21V
M/W21S

That's pretty good IMHO. The takeup on some of these courses was low or 0 though. Maybe the N or V courses are confusing to new orienteers? Maybe they should not be age based classes? I don't even know what V stands for! Maybe new orienteers are detered from attending a "championship", thinking it's not for the inexperienced? A pity because anyone going is likely to be N or V "champion".

[andy]

I don't even know what V stands for!

Very Short

I think

[Stodgetta]

I won W35S at this years British. I went there hoping to win the course, but more as a goal for myself, and certainly not to be the W35S British Champion. I was happy with my performance and result because of personal reasons rather than national significance (at last years Bristish I retired in tears on the way to no 2 on W21S).

I have chosen to run short in the recent past because of health problems, and because to run long & be happy I would need to train to run long & I haven't got the time or the inclination at the moment. I could have gone out & finished the long course no problem, but that would have been finishing the long course, rather than attacking it, which is what I am enjoying doing.

Since then, I've had lots of people congratulate me on my "win", which I am happy with - I won my course, but no orienteer has congratulated me on being British Champion, which I am also happy with - I'm not.

Work colleagues are slightly different. They knew I was running in the British Championships, & afterwards asked how I had got on. They were more excited & didn't quite understand how I had won my course & not call myself British Champion.

It has also been useful in club publicity - the local press reported on Jane Christopher winning W65L with big photos of her, & a small photo of me winning W35S, however, it never said I was the W35S British Champion. We also reported everyone who finished in the top 10....as we did on the website.

On the "V" topic - last year because of a long term injury Stodge ran M21V at both British (only competitor) & JK, and won both. He certainly never felt himself to be a champion, felt a bit of a fraud for winning, but would have been incapable of doing the distance of M35S. He was just really pleased to be out there running again & wears his prize Buff with a smile. Most people who commented were pleased to see him back running after 5 years of injury. Only 1 person called him a pot-hunter...a top elite.

I think with the V & N classes, the problem comes with the 21 prefix. If it was just Mens/Womens Novice or Very short, more people might realise they can enter.

[awk]

I've felt for a long time that championships should simply have one class per age category, the championship class whatever that is - long, medium or sprint. Other courses of varying length can then be made available for those who want to run a different length (e.g. longer courses at a middle distance championship). At the Swiss 6-day a couple of years ago, I ran Men's A Short, which was effectively the 'short' course for any male under the age of about 50. There were a lot of us, and it made for a great competition.

Something similar is proposed for the equivalent of regional events under the new structure.

I think what this thread highlights is that the vast majority of S course runners aren't really that bothered about trophies etc; the whole 'champion' thing is imposed by others. I'd do away with them all together for us seniors, as they reinforce the false perception of the course, and agree with the Snail's suggestion that they'd be better used for middle distance championships.

Incidentally, the desire to run short is not necessarily anything to do with fitness - there can be any number of reasons why one wants to run a shorter distance. Whilst I do run L at single day events, I in very general terms actually prefer the S distance, not least because thy are often more interesting courses. There's too much tendency nowadays on the L course for long, dull legs with little challenge other than physical: the Long v Classic revisited. (It sometimes works the other way: at last September's Attermire National, I felt the area lent itself better to the longer courses).

[EddieH]

No Graeme, at the Scottish Champs, what about the poor English folks that won a course and were called up for prizegiving simply to stand there like lemons.

I do hope that is not repeated tomorrow.

[andy]

What about Championship courses for those who want to run the 'full' distance and a full compliment of colour coded courses for those who don't? No ambiguity there.

Only 1 person called him a pot-hunter...a top elite.

I hope in jest!

I was in a similar situation with work colleagues / friends etc after BOC (Men's short) relays, but I (/we) were happy with our runs and didn't really care whether it was deemed pothunting or not, was certainly more fun than coming way down the list in the Men's Open!

edit: I love offtopic threads

[NeilC]

I was in a similar situation with work colleagues / friends etc after BOC (Men's short) relays, but I (/we) were happy with our runs and didn't really care whether it was deemed pothunting or not, was certainly more fun than coming way down the list in the Men's Open!

But Andy you were way off the pace in the Short Open as well