BJesus

[J.Tullster]

I fail to see how my observations were offensive.

What?! How would you like it if someone from the other side of the world, who knows nothing about you, your system, the hard work you have been doing, just slates it. For a start you would probably dissapear for a couple of months in the huff.

For a start, it's amazing how polite those people were to you

I don't mind anyone saying anything as long as it's not done in complete ignorance.

But yet you still didn't see it fit to at least apologise, or sympathise with anything they were saying.
I think Mharkys right....

[mharky]

I don't think anyone said your comments were offisive, did they? I said you are butting in on anoter topic for which you have little knowledge, which you admitted.

You then go on to make another uninformed comment, saying that living in Scandinavia "levels the playing field"

Firstly, just lviing and training in Scandinavia doesn't level the playing field. There is terrain just as good in France and Switzerland, and those countries seem to be doing pretty well just now.

It is the support set up that really makes a difference. There are lots of people who live in Scandinavia, why are they all not good? Because those who get in the national teams get the support toreally improve as an athlete, and those dropped by them don't. Being in a well funded, set up, and organised team gives you access to sports scientists, and trianing camps in the WOC terrains which would be almost impossible to organise on your own.

Do you often adopt the unprofessional attitude of "undermining" people because they have "rubbished" your rubbish comments. If you were a selector would you not select someone because you didn't like them?

You certainly have revealed a very bad side of your personality there.

I feel that it would be hard to start a private forum purely for this debate, as it is an open one with australians popping out to share there feelings and thoughts. Then of course they have an interest and knowledge in the subject.

What is there that doesnt "meet the eye" about this situation???

[Mrs H.]

All I have done is ask what the Australians are not doing which has brought this situation to pass as opposed to concerned Brit who asked what BOF had done to bring it to pass - the anwer to his question seemed to be nothing. I have in some part received a few answers - I fail to see why i should apologise for that rather direct approach - I think as Gross said - there may be many lessons to learn from other federations' experiences.
But to be honest you'll no doubt be releaved to hear I've even lost interest in that - and thats what i meant by rubbishing and undermining - not me personally - just my end of the sport - there are only a handful of people in my club who know let alone care what elites are up to - and is that surprising when those who express an interest get slapped down as soon as they stick their heads above the parapets - will we even care enough to go out and find alternative forms of funding when the government coffers runs dry. Exactly who is being unprofessional here?

[Dids co]

Mrs H wrote > Your right - I am ignorant about elite orienteering - and what is more I don't even care along with a significant majority of other ordinary orienteers...


If you are ignorant about elite orienteering and don't even care about it, why make the comments you've made? They are both uninformed and disrespectful. Please think before writing such comments on what already is a sensitive issue.

[gross2006]

Been thinking about a positive helpful idea if the Aussies & Kiwis are interested.

In the build up to WOC 2001 in Finland GBR arranged an 'open house' using OK77 Club House near Helsinki... athletes could come & stay as they wished. It seemed to work ok.

It would be possible (& quite cheap) to rent an apartment in Vilnius to offer the same to Oz & NZ. The orienteering is great - mostly within public transport range - and the cost of living is next to nothing compare with GB. And the terrain (some of) around Vilnius is very similar to WOC 2007 in Ukraine...

If the powers that be in NZ & Oz are interested then get in touch by email & we can see if it's a serious possibility.

[Guest]

All I have done is ask what the Australians are not doing which has brought this situation to pass ...

With respect Mrs H, your original comments were not written as a question. To quote:

"Its more a case of what the Australians - in terms of developing the sport domestically -have failed to do in order to provide him and the likes with the support they require to make the top. I think instead of sounding off they should be a little more circumspect about their own short comings and learn from it."

I can't find a question in there; perhaps you could point it out to me.

I find it amusing that just because some have challenged your statements (not questions) you feel "rubbished" and "slapped down". Let me give you a hypothetical situation Mrs H ...

During a discussion on an internet forum about the lack of growth of orienteering in the Malvern area, some orienteer from Australia or NZ comes on and makes a statement (not question) that because there is a lack of growth in the Malvern area, there must be "more to it than meets the eye" and those responsible for organising orienteering in the Malvern area need to have a look at their own shortcomings. Wonder what your reaction would be?

A friendly antipodean word of advice Mrs H, next time you think there is "more to it than meets the eye", perhaps you do ask some questions rather than make assumptions and critical statements without any foundation.

Rob Crawford

[Guest]

A nice idea GRoss (assuming you are the same person I shared a microphone with at WMOC 2000) - unfortunately the days of Kiwi elites making three month summer sojourns to Europe are long gone, but if it changes back again, I'll come knocking on your door!

[rocky]

tullie, mrs h, mharky et al: stop it.

[PKJ]

Er, yes, please stop it.
'And what is more I don't even care along with a significant majority of other ordinary orienteers'. I've been surprised at this curious attitude for over 20 years. I'm fairly ignorant about elite orienteering, but I'm interested and it's why I've been reading this! There's no conflict with grass-roots activity at all.
But the nationality stuff is obviously sensitive - perhaps the question is whether this is likely to be a unique case.

[mharky]

it has happened before, in orienteering, not necesarily to britain, but for other countries. and it happens in all sports aswell

[candyman]

But the nationality stuff is obviously sensitive - perhaps the question is whether this is likely to be a unique case.

This is likely to be a unique case, although there are certainly other Australian elite orienteers who hold dual nationality and british passports. Infact if you search hard enough, as british triathlon have found, you can often find convict erm I mean british heritage in many australians.

By the way I wanted to deny the increasing rumours that BOF had offered me a private jet to fly to races if I joined the dark side.

[awk]

You may not be interested Mrs H. But you, like me, are an old fogey (yes, we're physically reaching those ranks!). Offspring on the other hand, was very interested indeed (he's even got David B-J featuring amongst his poster collection from O-sport).

The fact is that the elite are a vital element in our sport's image, particularly if we're going to develop it amongst young people. To that extent it needs to be of interest to anybody interested in development. And people don't tend to slap you down if you are polite to them (I of course am always extremely polite in my comments )

[Lizi Beee]

I find it hard to believe that people genuinely aren't even a little bit interested in the actions of the elite in your club mrs h. My club has a range of newer, experienced, younger and older orienteers and the majority find following the elites progress quite interesting, even the new ones to O-ing. maybe there isn't the right light shown on the elites around your areas then?

[harry]

Mrs H, you can have my posters of Kalevan Rasti and Anders Holmberg if you like.

(but I'm keeping Simone, Minna, Kvaal & BJ.)

[mharky]

you have a poster of anders home-boy???