orienteering in 20's and 30's

[Guest]

I agree that sprint/short races have their place, can be testing (speed and fine navigation as opposed to endurance and route choice) and many people enjoy them. Yes they may attract new people into the sport. One thing I was trying to get across though,is that while attracting newcomers at the short end of the race spectrum, is the sport haemorrhaging runners who prefer longer races and who get fed up of travelling the length of the country for a 30min sprint. As the UK cup is set up at the moment the few classic distance races in the list usually have a short race the day before which determines the start times on the Sunday, and from experience (on several occasions) it has been virtually impossible to get an allocated start time if entering the classic race only, and BEOC classic is (at least in theory) restricted to those who have run enough of the previous races to qualify. Runners who don't want to run classic races can simply omit them, runners who don't want to run short races have no choice! And the decline in National events means no chance to run classic races outside of the UK cup.

Great idea about a league of longer races. Or why not just offer a M/W classic (no age class)course at a few events (after all at the other end there are M/W novice or similar)

[awk]

Great idea about a league of longer races. Or why not just offer a M/W classic (no age class)course at a few events (after all at the other end there are M/W novice or similar)

Isn't that is what is offered at most events? At District events its called the Brown course (which may be a bit short for what you're after perhaps), at others it's the M/W21L. Maybe they should be renamed Men and Women Open or Classic.

[fish]

Isn't that is what is offered at most events? At District events its called the Brown course (which may be a bit short for what you're after perhaps), at others it's the M/W21L. Maybe they should be renamed Men and Women Open or Classic.

This is heading in an interesting (possibly good!) direction... Why not do away with age classes at most events, have a black course (or some such re-jig of colour coded), and then there is always a long technical course. Doing away with most age-class events is also an easy way to introduce a long-easy course etc.
It makes more events simpler - and accessible to all. Then have a series of regional championships that are age-classes, culminating in the national championships (in end of october??).
can set-up some extra club competition based on some of the simpler events early in the year, Uk cup can still exist using a mix of events. JK remains as a festival of orienteering (age classes). Sprint race series can be set up in local regions as a means of attracting people/media to the more accessible side of orienteering ...
Aaah, I don't know, there are a lot of possibilities - and this is moving off topic more towards fixtures set-up, so apologies!

Fish

[Lil' God'rs]

Isn't that is what is offered at most events? At District events its called the Brown course (which may be a bit short for what you're after perhaps), at others it's the M/W21L. Maybe they should be renamed Men and Women Open or Classic.

I think it is, to some extent, but for me a classic race is going to take 90-100 minutes. Most brown courses these days are more like 60 minutes. Scottish O League races lost their elite courses a few years back and the M21L is more like brown length....

[Godders]

Have to agree with guest again. I'd considered running elite only on day 2 of the JK but didn't fancy getting first start very early in the morning. (Perhaps I should have done a deal with Supersaint.)

In the main though I don't mind short/middle distance races, likewise I enjoy the more techincal sprint races but don't want to spend a lot of time/money travelling to them.

Brown courses seem to be getting shorter these days - I've run a couple recently in not much over 50mins.

[FatBoy]

Brown courses seem to be getting shorter these days - I've run a couple recently in not much over 50mins.

I agree. If I'm breaking an hour then it's too short for a brown, and nothing like far enough for what I want. Isn't the men's day 1 for JK about 6km anyway? That's a brown course these days.

I've been really struggling since I moved back up to running long (18 months?) to manage the distance (even though I enjoy it, and short is too short), and one of the reasons is that I just don't go to enough races that are that length. I wonder if this is perhaps why we're seeing a few elites struggle with classic/long distance? Footballers would call it being match fit - no matter how much training you do there's no substitiute for playing matches. I know it's difficult to fit in some areas but I would welcome a black course in to district events.

[Kitch]

Sorry Godders, you are sounding like a grumpy old man, with your didn't want to do a mass start, don't want to start early, rather do classics...

Orienteering is great !
doesn't matter when you start its about you and the course.
I did not appreciate the mass start atall at Hambledon, it did me no favours and it ruined the navigational challenge. But I still enjoyed the race, and running hard in a beautiful forest and at least trying to outfox the speed merchants ( only worked once).



enjoy it for what it is - forget what it isn't

[LostAgain]

Having come to orienteering relatively late (26) I can let you know what attracted my wife and I and why we continue to do it.

Reason for starting, looking for something to keep us fit. Introduced through CATI at Delamere forest. Enjoyed the physical in combination with mental challenge.

Joined DEE where there was an active Wednesday night training, something which is less readily available these days.

Orienteering allows both my wife and I to compete at the same time and in accordance with our own fitness and capabilites. The navigation stops you thinking about the pain from running and alleviates the boredom of just running 10K.

I notice that most of my peer group have subsequnetly left orienteering. I suggest that this is primarily due to the unfriendly nature of orienteering towards people with young families. To arrive at an event, usually 1 - 1.5 hrs drive, take parent splits leaving the kids in the car is a miserable day for the kids.

The Norwegian and Swedish system is better, they have a creche for the kids, both sting and off-string courses at every event, we went to 4 consecutive events in Yorkshire & E.Midlands in Jan-Feb where there was not a string course, even though some had advertised one. The Creche allows parents to run at the same time significantly reducing the length of time.

Another issue is the expense for families.

Once you lose the 20+ due to family commitments then it is extremely difficult to get them back as routines are established away from Orienteering.

Hope this adds something to the discussion

[PorkyFatBoy]

Orienteering is great !
enjoy it for what it is

Remind me of that when I finish 110th both days this weekend

The Norwegian and Swedish system is better, they have a creche for the kids, both sting and off-string courses at every event, we went to 4 consecutive events in Yorkshire & E.Midlands in Jan-Feb where there was not a string course, even though some had advertised one. The Creche allows parents to run at the same time significantly reducing the length of time.

Creches, or at least some kind of safe child zone would be of benefit to some of us - (but who wants to look after someone elses kids?) so that I could run with PFB Jnr without needing to involve his mum (and therefore his sister too).

[Mrs H.]

(but who wants to look after someone elses kids?).

It's not a question of want - i'd happily provide the facility at HOC events - but as far as I'm aware I need a piece of paper to say I'm a fit person to do so - and it would gog me to jump through that hoop - it never stopped dozens of other mums entrusting me with their kids before - perhaps they could tell from the way my kids behaved that I knew how to do it! Can you imagine the burden of paper work if a club wanted to run a creche now - and BOF have only made it harder with all this ludicrous child protection malachy. Have you seen the last route choice 5. Youngest Miss H. - spotting herself on the start line of the BSOC - looke anxiously for hr name - and those of a few oither faces she recognised - and tossed it to one side as being of no interest because the names were missing. It's time the sport worked out why it exists - the enjoyment of the participants or to tick the boxes of various government quangoes. Sorry pre Jk stress rant

[graeme]

It's not a question of want - i'd happily provide the facility at HOC events - but as far as I'm aware I need a piece of paper to say I'm a fit person to do so

I just went through the disclosure process (not too painful yet). There was a bizarre moment when our disclosure practitioner, who I've known for upwards of 20 years, and whose children I've had ample opportunity to molest, peered earnestly at my passport photograph to verify that I was, indeed,
me, this being her contribution to helping someone I've never met to decide if I'm a fit person.

I don't think you really need a bit of paper to look after other people's kids if there's no contract involved. I get them dumped on me.

Graeme

[Guest]

I agree. If I'm breaking an hour then it's too short for a brown, and nothing like far enough for what I want. Isn't the men's day 1 for JK about 6km anyway? That's a brown course these days.

Brown courses should be 7.5-10k. 6k is in the lower half of Blue. However, there have been some rather strange planning offerings of late: a number of events I've been to have had Green at more than 5k (the shortest TD5 course!).

A few more Black courses wouldn't go amiss though, even if the numbers would be very small (maybe offering it would see numbers at the longer end rise?) at least on areas that can sustain them: Brown is all too often several times round a wood as it is.

[FatBoy]

Brown courses should be 7.5-10k. 6k is in the lower half of Blue.

A selection of Brown courses I did from the end of last year, which I say are fairly representative:

HALO Beverley 10/10/04 10.2km 75m - won in 53:56 - me 60:20
DVO Black Rocks 24/10/04 6.1km 290m - won in 49:56 - me 64:36
SLOG Bulford Ranges 28/11/04 No distance published but was about 10km - won in 53:00 - me 78:42 (bad one - ran M21L the night before!)
HALO Normanby Park 05/12/04 8.7km - won in 56:11 - me 60:10
EBOR Gilling Woods 27/12/04 7.1km 275m - won in 49:17 - me 68:28

It doesn't seem to matter much what the distance was (although I rest my case about browns existing at 6km) - the winning times are all on the short side I would say? According to BOF rules Brown should be 0.88 of what an M21L regional would be - therefore an hour on a Brown means I should be doing about 68 on an M21L. I wish.

That said, aside from Bulford there wasn't much scope to extend the courses much than there were already.

[bendover]

thanks for that. i now know your name!

[Tatty]

I think that thwese days you would not be able to find suitable people to cover for a creche. Would you like to look after someone elses screaming offspring for what could well be 2 to 3 hours. Who would provide all the toys/books/clean nappies/drinks etc? Haven't seen any event in the UK offer a creche for many years. You need a lot of Man/woman power and would still have to limit the ages. At the O-Ringen it is only available for kids of 18 months to 8 years. We learnt this to our cost when number 2 son was poorly at one 5 days and we asked them to keep an eye on him. However he was 9 so they refused!! It would be great, but in reality it is really extremely difficult. Most clubs just don't have the manpower or facilities ie freezing cold tent to cope. Dread to think what it would have been like at our CScup match when you could hardly swing a cat in the Registration hut!!