Junior Badge Scheme

[Mrs H.]

i think lizi's lost th plot a bit. she says Lay off the start squad and then tells a tale of woe - awful reports, patronising letters (Both of which i have seen examples of myself) and the fact that she had to out perform squaddies to get to where she is - not be equal - be better ( how unfair is that?). All credit to Lizi for achieving this. It's not the start squad itself that's the problem it's the total isolation in which it sits - it all or nothing (mostly nothing for eveyone else). club and regional squads are very unreliable and variable steps up to the start squad. It's time for someone to throw a rope ladder down from the squad to enable people to get aboard not pull up the draw bridge (mixed metaphoria). there really needs to be somekind of platform or halfway house for aspirants to be able to reach (B tours like there used to be perhaps) or the gulf is going to get bigger and bigger year by year until by the time they are 20 it will take a most exceptional athlete to be able the cross it.

[Jene]

bring on B tours!! lol...i dont bother goin to selection races cos i dont see the point....theres no way i could get on tours....same as lily maybe but dont think i could ever get on a tour plus the others stef b ect r waaaaaaaaaay above me now.....where as if there was a B tour i'd def try for it cos there might be a chance i could get on it....some1 ring bof pls....lol, not that it'd ever happen....not until i was W35 neways

[Peter B]

I say no more
Apart from....
Andy L listen in
Funding.
What I was saying earlier, using examples:
The Scottish junior squad get £12,000 on annual budget. 90% (not £9,000 as I originally said) i.e. £10,800 is provided by SportScotland. East Midlands get £1,500 from the EMOA annually i.e. from BOF. The reason why SOA get lottery funding and other squads dont is because the SOA is an independant region ie there are no other regional associations in Scotland. Sport England can't afford to fund properly 9 squads, it is more practical (unfortunately) that they fund only those who are good enough to be medal winners in the next 10 years.
Having said that, in the case of going to places such as Scandinavia:
WMOA's annual budget is £500. Yet they go to Sweden for a week every year. See the difference?
I leave you with this:
In some regions, they dont get enough income from associations such as the Lottery e.t.c., and some get more than others. Either way, you cant get what you want all the time.
And yes, I accept the challenge

[Jene]

isnt wales' something stupid like £400....and ppl wonder why we have to go on tours to crappy places like the lake district rather than sweden

[Lizi Beee]

i agree mostly with that, but i still think its nice to have you're achievment recognised by being in a higher squad than just the regional ones, i suppose its more than just a gap, its quickly becoming an ocean in some years... but i have to say our year in particular, the 2nd year W16s, arn't really "out there" away from all the rest of them, i mean look at the welsh results, i mean stef was truely on form after being fresh from scandanavia tour but the rest were all pretty close i believe altho i could be chatting rubbish there as i havn't looked at the results. (no need with not being there)

[Jene]

well most of the top 10 were within 20 mins so guess thats not that bad really.....but still, wish i'd gotten the change to go to halden.....if they took more ppl then maybe (ok so no1 else in w16 went to enuf selection races but thats not the point----maybe it proves theres not enuf to go for)

[Guest]

Peter B. I don't know where your figures are from.I'm not querying them. But I can say WMOA go to Sweden every other year and don't travel outside the region often between, but the trips are paid for by the participants (parents), and fund raising. As far as I'm aware there is little support from the region, although the region and clubs do support athletes who ask for help with selection to England/JIRCs if travel is expensive.

Hocolite

[Peter B]

Figures are valid as of 2002
Right I am going to shut the [nope] up now cos im just talking a load of crap, apart from the last bit

[Mrs H.]

Like to hear from the scottish contingent - are Peter's figures correct - where do you spend the money - why are there Scots in the Start Squad and who pays for them - with that level of investments why arn't you winning the JHIs every year - Peter says you have the money and you definitely have the terrain to spend it in? who pays for the welsh. Don't get excitid about the WMJS we're just lucky to have very committed coaches - very good contacts in sweden and very indulgent parents!

[Peter B]

OK im right in some places but not in others
The figures for EMOA are complete rubbish btw

[CHS]

This is pretty late but here goes:

I think that the summer tours are more important than the Start squad as you spend a concentrated period of time training, where as I'm under the impression that there are only two Start squad weekends in a year. Yes there's the prestige but it doesnt guarentee selections for events like the JHIs and Interlands.

The week or two's concentrated training everyday which you get on tour gives you a far greater consistancy than just running at events or doing a squad weekend once a month. This is one of the things that IMHO separates most of the start squad juniors from the rest. Yes everyone can navigate well to and hit two or three controls on their course, but the concentrated training improves that number and minimises the time wasted on mistakes.

As regards to fitness levels; Fitness and running training is important, but unfortunatly running faster also requires fatser navigation and again training can help imporve the balance of speed and accuracy. On the plus side for imporving fitnes is that it reduces fatigue (GCSE PE strikes again) and therefore the chance of making mistakes in the latter part of the course.

The quality of regional squads and the number of weekends and tours they organise is entirely down to the coaching teams. I have great respect for anyone who is prepared to give up their time and weekends out of already busy lives to run regional squads especially as i believe the don't get much if any support from regions or many people apart from the parents of the squadies.

Ramble over

[Doug T]

mrs H

where do you spend the money - why are there Scots in the Start Squad and who pays for them - with that level of investments why arn't you winning the JHIs every year - Peter says you have the money and you definitely have the terrain to spend it in?

the money is spent on training weekends and also tours, also it is used fo4r funding the scottish people who get into the start programme.which this year was a very high number.why are there scots in the start programme!!? because they are good enough and train hard enough and bother going to all the selection races!

why we do not win the jhis has nothing to do with funding! the reason 9which i thought wqas obvious!)is that there are so many more people in enfland so they have better depth in their squad.

on the subject of SP, i dont think the idea of b tours is a good idea. i think that this would stretch the funding even more so the quality of coaching and the places we go would not be as good for anyone.the point of the start programme is to develop the most promising juniors in the country so if they take in everyone it defies the point of it! i also think that people getting on the b tours would just be satisfied with getting on the b tour and no more so they would not improve.

end of rant...

[Jene]

na, u could still have advantages to getting on A tours.....and plus theres still start...that would still be as selective.....but ye....scotland arent doing as well.....but ye....all the people who did well at the jhi (in wales) are those who went on tours (anwen, rhodri n cerys) doesnt that show something...where as the rest of us ended up way down.....well, ish thing is, if im only 3 mins behind people who went on tours and have beaten others....but couldnt get to the selection races because parents didnt want to commit well then it makes the system i bit unfair (not sayin thats the reason or nethin tho)

[Peter B]

I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS A BIG GAP OPENING UP HERE AND IT WILL WIDEN - between the top juniors (i.e. those in the national squads and the best from regional squads) and everyone else. EVERYONE ELSE - EVEN SOME OF THOSE IN REGIONAL SQUADS ARE GETTING LEFT BEHIND.

See what I'm saying?

[Guest]

just like to say that Mrs H should realise the truth - the best get on the start program. Lizi would have got on if she hadn't beaten those people, and she'd been 5th on that selection race - but she won it and in my view missed out on an obvious JHI place This year tom winsor, dave scorah and john rocke made the start program. the first two had no wins, and 1 top 3 place each, with very mixed but generally good results - on no occasion did they beat all of the M16 boys. Lily unsworth was added on tour form only. In A week we will see alison o'Neill and graham gristwood compete in the world championships after being funded by start, and i bet you'll be cheering for them. At the end of the day, if you are not good enough for funding you don't get it, the start program has to tell you, and i believe the way its done is a good way to motivate, and it worked for lizi. It worked for Dave, Tom, John, Emily Benham, Adam Bushnell. And that is that.

As for B' Tours - organise them yourself, that way you can have a piss up our way and not have any coaches worrying about it