Run Challenge

[DM]

There are 2 clusters of Run Challenge going on near us. The first had started before we found out/were told about dates and at this point we asked for dates of any others, to try to avoid clashes. We were told we would be informed. Our event dates were fixed, and we have only found out about the dates for the Macclesfield Cluster by keeping an eye on the website. This does not instill confidence that people who do take part will be pointed towards O clubs.......

I do hope it takes off and that a flow of newcomers starts. I do feel that we could all have benefitted more IF there had been more coordination, ie last night we go 60 people along. How good would it have been to have total newcomers be part of that, enjoy the atmosphere and then go along to Run Challenges for more?

On Park Run, we tried enticing people to have a go at O by talking to people and handing out flyers over several weeks. We got some takers but maybe Park Runners just want to go round in circles.........

[andypat]

I'm assuming the point of all this is that the target people arent people who want to be orienteers, they want to be runners but also have some sort of social aspect. This group of people wouldnt be attracted by orienteering and probably laugh and toss their flaxen hair as they jog past the people in the funny trousers with the maps in the park.

Presumably the hope is that once theyve been doing run challenge for a while and realise its actually orienteering in disguise, its too late to restore their credbility and they might as well trundle along to the next O event...

[greywolf]

I'm assuming the point of all this...

Isn't the point simply to save BOF from being weaned off Sport England's teats? Seems to have sod-all to do with developing orienteering

[Sunlit Forres]

We got some takers but maybe Park Runners just want to go round in circles

I lost count of the number of runners I tried to get interested in Moray 2013 during this year's Moray Forest runs series (a 4-race family trail run series in Culbin, Roseisle, Quarrelwood and Monaughty). Despite the 6 Days being by far the biggest running event ever to have taken place in Moray (since the last 6 Days that is ) they just don't seem interested.

I can only conclude that orienteering is too hard, and runners generally just want to be told where to run (which happened with varying degrees of accuracy during the trail run series )

[aiming off]

Maybe this is aimed at the majority of hardcore orienteers who are having difficulty in finding controls when they are accurately placed inside the circle.

[mykind]

OK enough pussyfooting about. We are paying a lot of money to a group of people who couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery to put on pseudo orienteering events without any mechanism to get the participants into orienteering. I for one am about to secede from BOF.

[denbydale]

OK enough pussyfooting about. We are paying a lot of money to a group of people who couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery to put on pseudo orienteering events without any mechanism to get the participants into orienteering. I for one am about to secede from BOF.

Which brings me back to my earlier posting
- How much are they being paid?0

[roadrunner]

I've got to say that, looking at the web site, I wouldn't have guessed the target market correctly - it looks more like a fun family day out than a challenge for 16-30s who run regularly. Apart from that, to attract runners you need to publicise the events where they'll look - local running clubs, Runner's World etc. They also like to see how they did, so having a web site where none of the results are shown is not going to help, either.

I've mentioned orienteering to people at my running club, and even written an article or two about it for their newsletter. As others have found, there isn't a great level of interest, but several have come along to local urban races, and one or two have joined the local orienteering club.

[Homer]

Interestingly there was no issue with Lisa (age 14) taking part despite most of the course being on a mixture of roads (unclassified, B and A roads).

Participants must be over 16

They did ask for our date of births. We didn't tell any fibs either....
Shame cos Lisa was the most likely to want to go again.

[deebee]

Don't know about the target audience, names from the Cumbria events results include Bagness... Winskill... Lecky-Thompson... Needless to say they beat off all opposition to win

[SeanC]

Runners - Sunlit Forres, don't get disheartened. These things need to be in perspective. A couple of years ago we had a big push on local runners. Lots came, a few joined, only 1 or 2 a year became regular orienteers. But regular orienteers are loyal and 2-3 new members for our club = steady slow growth. 1-2 new members = steady decline. The margins make all the differences.

Also lots of experimenting and changing is needed over many years to get a formula that works locally. I reckon I know a way that will work in Kent. Take the events to the running clubs and to their club houses, mainly street scores, but summer trail events can work too if well marketed. For general non club runners stacks of targetted advertising and dumbed down simple orienteering works. When orienteering gets too old and too small in Kent that gives us a way to keep it alive - simple runners O (with running clubs taking the lead on organising and socialising) with 1 or 2 real/technical O courses attached on the side for the diehards, rather like the Surrey Hills Race. We become part of the running community rather than a separate universe and attempt to convert them.

[SeanC]

Run Challenge. No need to pile on pressure, you can be sure that the pressure is on. With numbers like this there is no chance of the project money being renewed from SportEngland. I would imagine there have been plenty of meetings and head scratching. Things can turn around quick though. It may be the marketing which is difficult to get right first time. The product may be OK.

The apparent conflict with the MDOC score is disappointing. If there was still a development committee this would be something that it would raise. But has anyone from MDOC approached the local activators in a friendly and supportive way? Rather than worrying about who got here first etc, there might be an opportunity to work together. The local activators obviously need some help.

For those enjoying the apparent failure I'll ask you this, what's the alternative? A few regions and clubs are the exception, but the general picture is 30 years of ageing and decline despite so much hard work. There's no chance of orienteers paying the piper. We can't even do "managed retreat".

At least BOF are having a go. I doubt it's a bundle of laughs right now and I hope they can sort it out and make it a success.

[DM]

Sean,
The answer to your question is yes, we did offer help. We were told that it was not needed.
Date clashes will happen but surely setting a date on the same night a few miles away makes no sense. If Run Challenge had their dates out and broadcast earlier then MDOC would have shuffled venues around to widen the gap in time and distance - it should be a 2 way thing.
I also hope it succeeds and that this is done safely. Which is why I did question the safety of one event that did not forbid crossing or using a 70 mph dual carriageway. I did get a quick and good reply to this comment so I am sure it will not happen again.

[Glucosamine]

If it takes off like parkrun it could be a big pool of possible O participants. If...

Just ran another parkrun inaugural - 160 people - on another O-mapped area. Most had probably not done an organised event before - but seemed to enjoy the formula. Aiming to recruit from running clubs is all very well, but running calendars are already crowded. Can we not recruit from the uncommitted rather than poach? It would be good to think RunChallenge might eventually get the recipe right to appeal to the lycra-clad street-runners (interestingly, apparently more women than men). And yes, prompt results do count, despite parkrun not being a race.

[Glucosamine]

Lies, damn lies and ... PR. Interesting to compare the apparently disappointing participation numbers cited for some Run Challenge events here on the forum with the account in Focus (just arrived) of the significant number of events set up. Some (after the event?) justification of the approach being taken ('pointing to clubs later ...') perhaps deserves some patience. The example map even looked like some adventure racing courses I have seen (though those tend to get the controls in the right place). So is it reasonable to hope for participation numbers to be shared at this stage in the development, or is more patience needed?