WOC Long Final

[Mrs H]

Defo!

[Kitch]

got to say that the result confirms Thierry as an absolute master of the sport.

When I was a competitor at junior international level, and even in early days as a senior for us Brits being beaten by a member of the French team was a bad day in the forest. Now, as a team their consistently high performances, from the men in particular, are streets ahead of us out in the forest.
Can we learn from what they have done ?

[EddieH]

I may be totally off here, but I have the impression they have numerous tough elite races during the year, not 80 minute and less major championships.

I cannot see how our domestic races can conceivably prepare any British based orienteer for a long final like yesterday's.

[mappingmum]

Going back to the first leg - Helen P has described it as *epic* and *survival* on twitter . . . . got to be a strong candidate for further analysis in CompassSport . . . . already looking forward to GB competitors comments.

[Scott]

Can we learn from what they have done ?

I would be curious to know what the age profile of the sport in France is, and whether they have a broader base of orienteers aged 35- to draw on.

The UK only has 957 competitively active (= have been to one ranking event in the past year) orienteers aged 16-35: in other words roughly 1 in every 75 British orienteers of an eligible age is in the WOC team. If you discount the juniors and just consider 21-35 year-olds that becomes 1 in 40!

I feel like we do pretty well at an international level given those numbers, but it would be interesting to know how other countries compare.

[awk]

got to say that the result confirms Thierry as an absolute master of the sport. When I was a competitor at junior international level, and even in early days as a senior for us Brits being beaten by a member of the French team was a bad day in the forest.

Accept what you say - but Thierry was equally dominant against us as a junior, along with, if I recall correctly, his brother, and Francois Gonon.

[Kitch]

absolutely,
as I became a more senior senior the French were building their strength with people like Dominic (?) Coupat and we certainly came to fully respect their ability. Then came Thierry and co and they went all Swiss on us.

Over the 25 years in question,
we as a nation have improved significantly
the French have leap-frogged (couldn't resist) us though,
its been a massive achievement on their part.

Can they sustain this level ?
The Swiss have done so, why shouldn't the French.

Can we attain that level ?
If we are to ever do so I think it will have to involve a squad of athletes that works together for several years and who stay based together.

[Gross]

If we are to ever do so I think it will have to involve a squad of athletes that works together for several years and who stay based together

As was almost the case in days gone by

[Pippa]

The french team almost all live in the same place. They all train together. They have fantastic support and team spirit. Olivier Coupat was running things when I lived there. The focus is on orienteering 100%. I'm pretty sure Thierry will never have run 10km on the road - the vast majority of his training will be with a map.

The men have come through better than the women: I saw Philippe when he was younger fighting to be as good as Thierry, but right on Philippe's heels were a big group of juniors fighting to be as good as him...kids like Fred who are now very good in their own right. They are out there every day pushing each other. No, they do not have a large base of under 35's, they struggle as much as we do with participation, and the average level of competence for your once-a-month orienteer is pretty low.

Every couple of weekends they pile the whole squad, 25+ people, into a minibus and drive across France to train all weekend on the craziest mix of terrain you have ever seen. Sprint, middle, night, long-O all within 24 hours. But it's not a slog, it's all quality, and it's all fun. I tried to tell the Brits we needed to actually organise technical training, head-to-head stuff, every fortnight through the winter...My technical abilities improved drastically while I lived in France.

Pippa

[EddieH]

That makes massive sense to me. And with regular weekends like that the stamina for long races is bound to develop.

[Kitch]

Thanks Pippa

I knew they worked together but not the extent and intensity of it.
We have set up our centres of excellence, though they are only in their infancy and whether they can be maintained with the loss of funding remains to be seen.

I think the key point is a commitment to work together by a squad of athletes.
Our best often disappear abroad and that weakens our progress overall.

Sounds like it has to be a way of life for a whole squad.
I've been involved in that environment the men had it here in Scotland in the early 90's and guess what, there was a step change in our success its when we started winning medals.

[Kitch]

Of course now we have the perfect project

WOC 2015

[DIDSCO]

Kitch is right about the need for a team of athletes to work together, push each other, motivate each other. Kenyan style running groups but applied to orienteering. One reason why I think the swedish men don't perform as well as they should do is that the best don't train with the best at the level they perhaps should be, even in the same club / city.

We have one advantage over the larger o nations, with fewer top runners competing over team places its easier for us to gain more international experience. This is something that Thierry says really helped him. He ran his first senior World Cup race I think in 1996 aged only 17.

I grew up competing with Thierry and Francois, I think the first time in France in 1993, they were 2 years younger but would often run in the older age class, especially in relays. Thierry and Francois ran the JK in 1996, I won, and I think Thierry was 2nd or 3rd and Francois 4th.They were good juniors, but not much better than our 78's/79's until their final 2 years in junior. Thierry and Francois grew up in the same housing block, went to school together, so pushed each other all their lifes in orienteering.

Francois came over to my house earlier this year when he was in Gothenburg (he runs for IFK) and showed me how he trains, and the analysis he does of his orienteering training. The detail his analysis went in to was amazing, and took orienteering to another level for me. Looking at what is required in most international races to win a medal its this level of analysis and training our runners need to get to because at the very top the best runners don't make mistakes.

[epocian]

Looking at what is required in most international races to win a medal its this level of analysis and training our runners need to get to because at the very top the best runners don't make mistakes.

Except in yesterday's middle and today's relays!

http://andybary.tumblr.com/post/9128617015/gps

[mappingmum]

Thanks for the video - it's brilliant!