EUOC Big Weekend 2013

[awk]

The London marathon. (Do I win a coconut?)

As far as I can see, they don't: the different routes start at different times, and so each is hence a separate race from the other routes.

Orienteering: when the first starters are faced with a "virgin" forest and the last starters get to run in a forest with tracks between the controls.

I totally accept what you are saying about the nature of the course potentially changing and the impact that can have (and that does happen in other sports, who equally try to cater for the change), but the actual course remains the same.

[haloite]

As the subject has been broached.....if you entered a chasing sprint would you prefer the chase to be -

A straight out and out race - head to head - no gaffling or butterflies

A gaffled chase

A chase with butterfly loops

......Interested as I am planning the Yorkshire Sprints the day before Hull Old Town and Marina Nopesport Urban League race

Cheers!

[Spookster]

As the subject has been broached.....if you entered a chasing sprint would you prefer the chase to be -

1. A straight out and out race - head to head - no gaffling or butterflies

2. A gaffled chase

3. A chase with butterfly loops

......Interested as I am planning the Yorkshire Sprints the day before Hull Old Town and Marina Nopesport Urban League race

Cheers!

Any of them, as long as you tell me which one to expect in the Final Details . I guess what caused a lot of people to mistakenly mis-punch in Edinburgh was that they expected 1, but got 2. If you're going to use 3, then I think you need no more than half the total course distance in butterflies, and the remainder common, so that you actually get some head-to-head racing.

[Snail]

awk wrote:

graeme wrote:The London marathon. (Do I win a coconut?)

As far as I can see, they don't: the different routes start at different times, and so each is hence a separate race from the other routes.

Not quite. There are three different simultaneous starts, all in the same race. Admittedly those likely to win are all at the same start, but in theory someone from one of the other two starts could win.

[awk]

awk wrote:

graeme wrote:The London marathon. (Do I win a coconut?)

As far as I can see, they don't: the different routes start at different times, and so each is hence a separate race from the other routes.

Not quite. There are three different simultaneous starts, all in the same race. Admittedly those likely to win are all at the same start, but in theory someone from one of the other two starts could win.

I see - it's the elite women and wheelchairs that start at the different times. Not clear from the info I was looking at, but sorted now. Thanks.

[awk]

As the subject has been broached.....if you entered a chasing sprint would you prefer the chase to be -

A straight out and out race - head to head - no gaffling or butterflies

A gaffled chase

A chase with butterfly loops

......Interested as I am planning the Yorkshire Sprints the day before Hull Old Town and Marina Nopesport Urban League race

Cheers!

To be honest - none of them. I don't think any championship (even a small one) should use a chasing sprint format, was surprised that the Fat Rascal was used last year, and would be disappointed if it was repeated.

But in terms of a chasing sprint, having tried and enjoyed all of them, my favoured format, by some margin, for what is and should remain a 'fun' format is one with butterfly loops.

[seabird]

awk, for now the Chasing Sprint is the format that YHOA have decided on for their Championship. You may need to talk around the region to see how widely your view is shared. YHOA clearly thought the Chase worked last year. They had not realised it was a Chase when they chose the Fat Rascaln last year. I suggested just using the Prologue for the Champs but they said give the Chase a go.

Haloite, I'd suggest you look at the constraints of the areas you are using to determine how best to mange the chase.

There may be H & S reasons for splitting the Chase Up, e.g. traffic concerns, the problems of a groups of runners running up congested alleyways (ginnels), round tight corners etc. where there are other pedestrians.

Likewise the area may be technically simple, eg Golden Acre Park last year. In detailed forested Lakeland terrain, for instance, there is far more chance the technical mistakes in orienteering will split the group so less need for loops or gaffling.

From this discussion above I am personally far from persuaded of the virtues and fairness of gaffling in a Chase -and certainly would not want them used for a Championship.

[CrawfordL]

The ESOC sprint is similar to Sunday's race in that we have a prologue with starts a minute apart and then a chasing sprint for the second race. Normally it has butterfly loops rather than gaffling as then everyone runs the same course albeit in a different order. I planned the event in 2011 and used 2 figures of 8 and 1 butterfly loop giving 8 variations in total. These were then given out in the order a b c d e f g h a b c etc. We warned people that there were variations and it was a great spectacle with people coming together and then following for a part of the course and then separating again. Caused a bit of chaos and was great fun.

If you are interested here's the link to Routegadget for the event.

http://www.esoc.routegadget.co.uk/cgi-bin/reitti.cgi?act=map&id=29&kieli=en

It was done this way as Lauriston Castle is a small area and quite open.

As others have said the area determines the approach.

[haloite]

Chris - I've asked for the YHOA Guidelines regards the Sprint Champs
Crawford - I've used the figure of 8 before - thanks for reminding me about it!

The event is on virtually traffic-free University campus with a couple of nice multi-level sections that might split folks up a touch in the chase!

[awk]

YHOA clearly thought the Chase worked last year.

It was a great event but I can't begin to see how they thought it worked as a championship. Sprint is specialist enough without restricting it to an even more specific market. They barely scraped an entry in most classes.

[haloite]

There's always the option of a reverse start (non-chase) second race - British Sprint Champs style - slowest from prologue off first, fastest off last. Not sure how easy/difficult it is to organise - from an organisers point of view!?

[Dangerous]

I would like to thank everyone involved with the EUOC Big Weekend. I really enjoyed it.

I would like to highlight a couple of issues that show how difficult it is to ensure fair competition in a dynamic urban environment. This is NOT a complaint.

1) Roadworks. There were a large number of roadworks in the competition area. As far as I know none were mapped. There were roadworks on Infirmary Street course A leg 5-6. The map showed a clear way through. To reach the stairs involved a partially hidden detour of say 40m. Routegadget shows Oleg Chepelin turned back. Others made it through.

2) Temporary obstacles / closures - Course A leg 12-13. As I reached Victoria Street I intended to reach control 13 by following the level path north of Victoria street. I had to turn back as the path was temporarily closed due to men working overheard from a truck parked on Victoria Street. Routegadget shows that this path was open for other competitors.

What should be done ?
1) Should roadworks be highlighted ? There was a way through but it was not obvious if you approached the roadworks from the north.
2) What can be done? I don't have a solution for this one.

[Sunlit Forres]

Should roadworks be highlighted ?

Not if the planner doesn't know they'll be happening.

What can be done?

Not a lot. Ali McLeod told me that he sent a city-wide memo out when the maps went for printing saying that all construction work in the city should cease until Sunday. Not everybody read it in time.

[awk]

There's always the option of a reverse start (non-chase) second race - British Sprint Champs style - slowest from prologue off first, fastest off last. Not sure how easy/difficult it is to organise - from an organisers point of view!?

Have to say, as a competitor that's my favourite format.

(Later edit: BSC uses reverse start after knock out, which for me is best when you've got enough, but the other, where all the prologue runners go into a reverse start final, is a very close second).

[NeilC]

There's always the option of a reverse start (non-chase) second race - British Sprint Champs style - slowest from prologue off first, fastest off last. Not sure how easy/difficult it is to organise - from an organisers point of view!?

That's how we do the SEOA Sprint Champs, fastest in race 1 start last in race 2. The winner is the one with the fastest cumulative time (as in the short lived BOF age class sprint champs). Some clubs have written routines to handle this, others just export to a spreadsheet, sort then allocate times.