Sheffield City Race 24 Nov 12

[andy]

Unfortunately, the map is completely ambiguous.

I find this to be the case all too often in Urban races. Generally (i.e. not always) 'cheating' can be avoided with a carefully planned / controlled set of courses and a well marked map. I imagine it's very very hard to achieve this though, guess I'll find out as I'm planning one next November.

[Spookster]

Routegadget is done (sorry for the delay, due to faffing around editing split time files associated with the "stolen" control).

[ianandmonika]

It was clearly stated in the final details that OOB roads were OOB and crossing must be by underpasses or bridges. On southern road crossing, using in bounds underpass was 30-45 seconds slower than using OOB crossing.

[graeme]

Well well, people didn't remember what was in the final details, who'd have guessed it?

using in bounds underpass was 30-45 seconds slower than using OOB crossing.

So I assume spookster with his 38 sec split for the entire leg will be DQing himself then? (or were they just made-up numbers?)

[Spookster]

Well well, people didn't remember what was in the final details, who'd have guessed it?

using in bounds underpass was 30-45 seconds slower than using OOB crossing.

So I assume spookster with his 38 sec split for the entire leg will be DQing himself then? (or were they just made-up numbers?)

It's 150m via the underpass, and 120m via the crossing. So my 38 seconds for the underpass was run at about 4mins/km (I did run it quickly as I was catching and passing Colin Smith). Paul M ran 32 secs, but immediately DQ'd himself for crossing a road, possibly this one.

So, it was about 6 seconds slower to run the legal route at 4mins/km, or let's say 15 seconds slower at 10mins/km. Of course there is also the slightly more complex map reading and navigating time to add, but when you live in Sheffield and it's the route to the cinema, that's not a problem.

[awk]

Well well, people didn't remember what was in the final details, who'd have guessed it?

using in bounds underpass was 30-45 seconds slower than using OOB crossing.

So I assume spookster with his 38 sec split for the entire leg will be DQing himself then? (or were they just made-up numbers?)

Ian is referring to a different leg on the C course to the one Spookster ran on the B course. On the former, the route across the road was significantly shorter than the route via the underpass.

[andypat]

Unfortunately, the map is completely ambiguous.

I find this to be the case all too often in Urban races. Generally (i.e. not always) 'cheating' can be avoided with a carefully planned / controlled set of courses and a well marked map. I imagine it's very very hard to achieve this though, guess I'll find out as I'm planning one next November.

And I'm looking forward to it! This might be common sense but it seems like if as a planner you are relying on crossing points to offer route choice, you need to be certain that the obstacle is not crossable in between - eg a river or a railway. If you are not relying on crossing points for route choice but need people to use them for safety then put a control in.

(just a thought but is there any reason why a planner couldnt put a control in each crossing point with the same number?)

[sloaner]

I used the crossing on course B ..... but had to wait for the green man (twice I think as it's a staggered crossing), so it may have actually been longer....

[awk]

(just a thought but is there any reason why a planner couldnt put a control in each crossing point with the same number?)

I can't remember where or when, but I'm certain I've run in at least one race where that is exactly what happened.

[haloite]

I can't remember where or when, but I'm certain I've run in at least one race where that is exactly what happened.

DVO Chatsworth - many,many,many years ago - leg across open moor through an uncrossable wall - 2 choices of crossing point, each with an identical control code?

[awk]

I can't remember where or when, but I'm certain I've run in at least one race where that is exactly what happened.

DVO Chatsworth - many,many,many years ago - leg across open moor through an uncrossable wall - 2 choices of crossing point, each with an identical control code?

Could be. I've certainly run there more than once.

[andypat]

Sounds like a decent compromise to me, although you'd probably have to put it in the final details sorry graeme

[mappingmum]

Hmmm, I'm sure people have said on here before that optional controls at [different] crossing points is a challenge to the download systems ie it can't do x or y

[Marco Polo]

Hmmm, I'm sure people have said on here before that optional controls at [different] crossing points is a challenge to the download systems ie it can't do x or y

No, this wouldn't look any different to a download system than having more than one punch/box at the same control site, a is often done for controls likely to have high usage.

[AndyC]

Agreeing that it is a sensible idea but would it give difficulties in Routegadget?