Night-O and Ranking Points

[greywolf]

Why don't night events get ranking points?

Night-O was one of a number of types of events (also: score, chasing start, mass start, relay legs) excluded from rankings when the new system was introduced a couple of years ago and it's probably fair to say it was the most marginal call.

Responses to the consultation exercise were evenly balanced for & against.

The available evidence from the previous rankings scheme was that night events did produce anomalous results - in particular from v small fields where one or two people getting horrendously lost had a disproportionate effect on points.

Given the limitations of the BOF software at the time, which severely constrained the RWG and caused a somewhat bodged implementation, it might have been a reasonable decision.

However now that the system has a threshold of 10 finishers (aged 16+ with BOF numbers) before any course gets points the anomalies should be minimised, and I can't see any good reason why night events are still excluded...

Of course neither Mharky or Monika would have got any points for their recent performances at the Scottish or British nights - maybe the availability of rankings points might persuade night aficionados not to schedule the two biggest events of the season on the same day (again) ?

[Adrian]

Was it the right decision.....

No

[ianandmonika]

And why didn't Monika get any ranking points - because her 1st control was 81, but it was decided to put an 0 in front on the control flag - she gets to what she thought was her control, but it's 180 (081 backwards) - so back to the start and in again to find the same thing!! After that it was a waste of time. Lucky courses were not voided?

[greywolf]

And why didn't Monika get any ranking points ...

I suggest you take that up with the organisers
However, there were only 7 finishers on her course, so even if Night O was eligible for rankings points, no-one on that course would have got any.

[ianandmonika]

It was a theoretical issue - nights don't qualify as ranking events.

[Gnitworp]

Ian would have got some nice ones

[LostAgain]

Was it the right decision.....

N0.

[The Loofa]

Why don't night events get ranking points?

It was decided by a working party consistently entirely of woosies who are afraid of the dark.

[madmike]

Loofa

[ianandmonika]

140 competitors (exc Yellow/White) at today's Guisecliffe event where ranking points awarded. Over 280 entrants (exc novices) for 2012 British Nights but no ranking points. See no logic for night events not being for ranking points when day events with small attendance qualify.

[Big Jon]

Was it the right decision.....

NO, "strange results" orienteering is always producing strange results, one of the joys of the sport -the top runner can always make a howler of an error.

The most strange thing is the decision, not the night orienteering.

How about revisiting it now and allowing them? Who do we need to lobby to get this anomaly changed?

[madmike]

How about revisiting it now and allowing them? Who do we need to lobby to get this anomaly changed?

d'accordo - I agree it should be revisited now

Who to lobby - A very good question Big Jon, it is not obvious from the ToRs for committees and groups on the BOF website - in fact the ToRs for competitions/events appeared to have been copied from a commercial company as they are all about delivering to the Board on unspecified targets and not about orienteering

I suggest Mike Hamilton in the first instance and he can pass it on to whoever is now responsible.

I also note there was a level B event in the SE today where no runner on black course will get ranking points

[ianandmonika]

Scott Collier was on black in SE event - maybe he will fix it.

[Spookster]

Scott Collier was on black in SE event - maybe he will fix it.

The "fix" is to get more people to run Black (or not to put on a Black). Unless you get 10 finishers, it can't be ranked under the present rules.

[Scott]

I think it will be one for the new Events & Competitions Committee, or some subgroup thereof.

As greywolf has said, whether or not to include night events was probably the most marginal decision the original workgroup made. The consultation brought in a pretty much 50/50 mix of responses strongly in favour and responses strongly opposed.

Sadly, from what those more mathematically-inclined folk have said previously, I'm not sure whether current algorithm is capable of producing sensible points when there are only six people on a course , although, as I've said before, it may be worth looking at whether it would be worthwhile dropping the threshold to (eg.) eight.