JK 2009 Feedback?

[Freefall]

Yes - of course we want balanced views. As long as they are good and better. Behind most of the causes of complaints there is usually some sort of good reason why things happened as they did. I do appreciate the Nopesport users like to let off steam occasionally when they don't have the perfect day and we do know it was a great success overall.

[EddieH]

After my lengthy post before I want to make it clear that the weekend was a great success, and I likewise am interested to be made aware of the late decision to use Kyloe. Mind you I can't think that you have a better area than Kyloe with a really good modern map.

[ba-ba]

Really enjoyed my 2nd JK after a 14year O break (I'm only 20!) - good to spend some time with UDOC in our shared village hall.
Surely the reason many people didn't turn up at 7.30am for the relay buses was as they were based up around Kyloe - it took us 90mins to get down (granted we did take a rather left-field route and ended up in a line of cyclists) and I doubt waking at 6am is favored by anyone, (let alone ShUOC!)
The map exchange mistakes need to be learned from, but when ShUOC emotions got high (finished 4th, 35secs off 2nd in women's short, but 2nd leg had to wait 1min to get through the map tent) I've been told our runners, when complaining, were originally scolded like children - maybe everyone was a bit frantic?
Still, thoroughly enjoyed it, and even though it was a pain in the arse, the bus queues provided a sufficient amount of banter. (Legend: "I'm Getting Picked up" G: "aren't you a bit old for that?")
The Shopping centre toilets were the way to avoid the day1 queues as well

[Anne]

First off, I must say that I really enjoyed the JK. I thought Days 1, 2, and 3 were all great areas – very varied and very well planned.

The following is more of a specific point rather than something relating to the overall JK experience. I thought it was a great shame about all the mispunches that occurred on Day 3 because of control 183, which was just before a drinks point at the start of a long taped route (there were 11 mispunches on M45L, as well as 3 on W21E).

As I’m sure many people are thinking, it is and always has been each competitor’s own responsibility to make sure he or she punches all the controls. Personally, however, I felt that the sheer number of mispunches involving this particular control suggested that maybe something wasn’t quite right. It could have been to do with the drinks point being part of the description of control 183 – this may have made people likely to head straight for the drinks point (which was clearly visible) expecting to find a control there, and then forgetting to punch after drinking because the control was actually twenty metres away.

Having a drinks point at a control seems to me to be a good idea, as does having a control directly before a compulsory taped route. In this case, because the drinks point was next to a gate in a wall, the leg leading up to the control there wasn’t exactly a quality leg. Nothing would have been lost by placing the control at the gate (i.e. right next to the drinks), and this may have decreased the number of unfortunate people forgetting to punch.

One other thing - it would be good if all the announcements at the start (safety, which side the map boxes are on, the location of the start kite, etc.) could be finished well before the actual start – say, in the –3 box. This would allow competitors to re-focus before their time started. I felt a bit rude pushing past the official who was giving the announcements at the start of the sprint, but in my defence he was still going (and standing directly in front of me) as the last bleep went.

And another positive comment – I thought all the army cadets were brilliant, especially as car-park marshals, so thanks to all of them!

[mharky]

Advice for all event organisers in the future. Don't use Sutmap. Ever. He makes crap maps. Cheap crap maps. I hgad the displeasure of planning a JK day on one of his maps and it was crap.

[Roger]

Thanks to NEOA for an excellent event, which I enjoyed despite being one of the victims of control 183. The weather helped of course, but around me in Monday's bus queue the atmosphere was notably relaxed and forgiving. The message seemed to have got through that the organisers were doing their best to ensure that nobody would miss their run, and the punters waited in good humour.

Question for the commentators (who filled large amounts of air-time much better than I could have managed): at Detchant, did you know that the commentary was clearly audible to the elite competitors going through the spectator / drinks point? I guess not, otherwise we wouldn't have had the comment "I think that I can now reveal, because Oli will be at the start by now, that there's a route-choice leg out of the drinks: over the stile or up the fence to the gate".

Question for the elites: would you rather know, or not know, where your intermediate time places you and how far down you are? (My own answer would vary depending where on the course I was: half-way round I'd rather avoid the distraction of having something other than the race to think about, but with only the last control to go I'd prefer to know whether or not a gut-wrenching sprint would bring any reward.)

If the spectator control is in the finish field then there's probably no way of delivering a meaningful commentary and avoiding the competitors finding out this information, but if it's remote, as here, then adjustments to the power and orientation of the speakers could prevent the competitors from hearing. Worth doing? You tell us.

[andy]

Question for the commentators (who filled large amounts of air-time much better than I could have managed): at Detchant, did you know that the commentary was clearly audible to the elite competitors going through the spectator / drinks point? I guess not, otherwise we wouldn't have had the comment "I think that I can now reveal, because Oli will be at the start by now, that there's a route-choice leg out of the drinks: over the stile or up the fence to the gate".

I think it's pretty safe to say most will have planned that leg way before being in audible range. It was pretty much a 50/50 choice which way to go as well, so it won't have made any difference.

Question for the elites: would you rather know, or not know, where your intermediate time places you and how far down you are? (My own answer would vary depending where on the course I was: half-way round I'd rather avoid the distraction of having something other than the race to think about, but with only the last control to go I'd prefer to know whether or not a gut-wrenching sprint would bring any reward.)

I don't think it matters much. I do remember the commentator saying that oli had 'caught' jon by a few minutes on the 2nd half of the course and he'd done well to conserve his energy on the first half to allow him to do this. Control 24 suggests this wasn't quite the case!!

The commentry is only really there to build the atmosphere and won't have affected the race at all. (not saying it never will have, but can't see it having affected these races)

[Freefall]

Not quite in context here but thought I would mention an email I received from John Seed, owner of Detchant (used by some Day 3 courses):

"Thank you for spending time with me on Sunday. The whole event was most impressive and I am pleased that I was able to contribute in a small way. "

John (who is nearly 80) had a VIP Pass but parked in the car park and walked up to assembly. I took him up onto the String Course to enjoy the view, including his forest he had never seen from this angle (and he has owned this for 25 years).

What a terrific man.

Colin Matheson
Day 3 organiser

[Rach]

i thoroughly enjoyed the JK and think the north east did itself proud (much helped by the weather!).
my only gripe (except for the bus farse) was that there were some decidely dodgy small sections of map, particularly around controls 16 and 21 on W21E on day 3. The map either needed to be better or those bits not used.
other than that, well done north east and thanks to all the helpers

[frog]

We enjoyed ourselves, although didn't perform very well. I'm glad we didn't have enough folk for a relay team, although having to travel south to the relays would have put me off even if we had, although I accept the Scots are in a minority here.
The sprint event was great fun, good for my self esteem after getting very lost at the SOL. It's nice when the kites are where you expect them to be, although Kyloe reminded me that I can't navigate in woods once I get tired and maybe should do orange courses!
The walks to the starts weren't too long and its nice to finish in the assembly field. I hate long walks from the finish.
It was our first JK, but next time it's in the north of England I'll go again, provided I don't have to be at work (it's not a long bank holiday weekend up here)

[DJM]

don't think Becks is saying that there shouldn't be a 21L/S/N but that you shouldn't get prizes for winning it.

That the S etc courses were awarded G, S and B medals seems like a one-off error, as the official intention is that no medals be awarded and that class winners receive an organisers' memento only.

[frog]

I think at a big event like the JK it's nice to have as many medals as possible. I think we don't do enough prizes in the sport, although usually the number of classes makes having them an organisational hassle.
If I was in the top 3 of any JK course I'd feel I deserved a medal, and a bottle of champagne, and a large round of applause, etc.
Perhaps the problem is more that proprtionally the athletes in the busy classes don't get as many prizes. I also think some of the long classes are too long, but then I've never been that fit. I'm pleased to see the lengths coming down as I get older. I hated being a W21.

[bedders]

I think we don't do enough prizes in the sport

Really? How so?

[frog]

Most sports have prizes for all competitions. Any sort of running race no matter how small will have prizes at least for the first 3. The number of classes in orienteering makes this an expensive or time consuming hassle, and the staggered starts. I do think more prizes or certificates would encourage juniors though, although the badge scheme can help with this, although the BOF badges seem in chaos at the moment.
If you do a running race then shorter races have prizes just like longer races. I don't understand the orienteering feeling that longest is best. Fair enough if you're an elite athlete who needs to be up to elite standards in other countries, but I don't see why for most of us hobby orienteers the short courses can't be seen as equally valued.

[seabird]

Thoroughly enjoyable weekend. Great achievement by a small region. Greatly enhanced by the sunshine. Non-orienteering spouse had an enjoyable weekend with plenty of nearby scenic delights and activities.

She even had the sense to avoid the relays and travel back with another non-relaying spouse.

The minor quibbles I had have all been aired by others.

Re the relay map issue problem.
Apart from the Harvester I've never persoanlly encountered the systems where runners have responsibility for aselecting their own maps. I can see it as potentially problematic, in terms of other teams being affected by their maps being missing,if taken in error - particularly for younger juniors who might be hetter off with being handed their maps in advance.

The problem seems to be entirely due to using rolled, rather than flat, maps handed out by officials. Maps folded and sealed flat are much easier to stack in numerical order, and hence much easier for the officials to identify quickly.

But even this sytem has its problems. In the rain at a BOC in N Wales many years ago the M11 seachick's, relay number was partially concealed by his cagoule. The official misread the number and handed him a W35 map, which he ran in an impressively good time! But unfortunately the W35 was left without a map!