BUCS 2009

[gg]

BOC relays 6.8km 30.20 4.28m/km

Only a short course though....

[distracted]

There are alternatives, like elsewhere, but Edinburgh, like Sheffield is the place to be, currently, if you wanna live the dream.

So that's why members of the last two year's JWOC teams have decided to take up university places at Bristol, Birmingham, Warwick, Loughborough, Bath, Oxford and Cambridge? It also seems to have done a current World Champion a hell of a lot of harm not being at Sheffield or Edinburgh doesn't it?

Lard - it may surprise you to learn that some people actually go to university to get a degree, and go to the best place for that degree rather than listening to the continuous drone of "Edinburgh or Sheffield or you're nothing." Is anyone who has made the effort to apply and been successful in gaining an Oxbridge offer then going to turn it down? Unlikely, because ultimately there is more to life than orienteering.

If someone wants to become a top-quality orienteer, it doesn't matter where they go to university, it doesn't even matter if they go to university, they are going to put the effort in to make it happen, make the best of what they have.

Yes, there are always going to be decent sized training groups of orienteers at Edinburgh and Sheffield because of the history they have, and the base of orienteers that stay in each of the cities. But they are not the be-all and end-all of university orienteering, and should not be advertised as such.

[RJ]

I do so hope that all of 'YOU' on here keep orienteering, and eventually feed yourselves back into clubs wherever you get your job/career. You are sorely needed to drive clubs around the country and take them into the 'new world'...... !!

[Lard]

Sorry Distracted. I didn't man to cause an argument.
I spoke from the heart - when I was 18-21 orienteering was the be-all-end-all - I couldn't give a damn where i got my degree, I was gonna be an orienteer whatever career I found. Now 39, still deeply immersed in orienteering, living comfortably with a degree I've never used and the memory of 3 blissfully fabulous years at college.
You've got to be happy and have a good social scene at uni - for me, because I was an orienteer, that meant, and still means Sheffield or Edinburgh.

I'm just one big saddo.

[lilywhite]

GG: the question was when was the last time someone ran that speed so I win you slow git

[RS]

[quote]Is anyone who has made the effort to apply and been successful in gaining an Oxbridge offer then going to turn it down? Unlikely, because ultimately there is more to life than orienteering.[/quote]

Yes they do and not just because of the orienteering....

[mharky]

Distracted, you have no idea. Shhh.

You can get a degree at lots of universities, so maybe people look for a bit more than that.

A big city. A good night-life. A big & friendly student population. Somewhere where they can do their sports. A place with a respected reputation.

No offence, but Oxbridge is just full of wierdo's, and for most people that just isn't our scene. When I arrived at BUSA I found a group of students playing some sort of Dungeons & Dragons card game on the ground in the carpark. Seriosuly, WTF?

Edinburgh and Sheffield are two cities which actually fill all of that criteria. Edinburgh is ranked 6th in the UK academically, and we were 4th in the overall BUSA rankings last year. OK, so we aint Oxbridge when it comes to getting your degree, and we aint Loughborough for sport. But you know what, we are bloody good at both. Edinburgh is an awesome city, with a cracking night-life.

Normal people come on our weekends and have a good time. Have a look at some of the people who were at BUSA, the only people who actually seemed to have any social skills were are Edinburgh or Sheffield (with a few exceptions). I talked to some Sheffield people who I had never met before. Cambridge looked like they got lost on the way to the world Chess/Scrabble/Rubix Cube championships.

If you are a junior orienteer, JWOC standard or stuggling on the light green, then Edinburgh and Sheffield are the best univerisities to go to. They have good, big, active, fun clubs in good, big, active, fun universities. Sheffield are a great example of this, they have hardly any "elite" people left, but they are an absolutely amazing club. If I wasn't at Edinburgh I would be there, why? Well they were 3rd at BUSA so not because of their elite club (ha ha ha), but because it would be fun. And that is what students are looking for.

Who all turned up in fancy dress, who were the last people at the social???

[Becks]

Still not sure it's true Lard! Oxford was awesome for orienteering - on the border of 5 regions, with at least two others close at hand, there was a choice of quality events every weekend, which you rarely get up here without having to travel for 2+ hours. Their Tuesday reps sessions with the Cross Country club are the toughest, puke inducing things I have ever done (I'm pretty sure their 2,3,4,5,8,5,4,3,2 minute reps session was far worse than the marathon!), and the circuits sessions at Brookes and now the ones run by OUOC are perfect for orienteers. Add to that a highly active alumni club, the ability to receive TASS funding, and a small but commited club that punches well above it's weight within the uni and at university level nationally. And finally, term time is only 3 x 8 weeks as an undergrad (unless you're an unlucky medic!). That leaves half the year, including a massive summer, to race around Europe! Including a winter tour with Cambridge in the UK, a summer OUOC/JOK tour, and a Varsity Match, it really is second to none. In fact, as an English athlete, I might even say it had an edge to Edinburgh, where you have to turn your back on your home nation to get any kind of monetary support.

There is choice out there, and I think it's great that more and more unis are starting up clubs. It's a shame that someone who has a lot of influence over junior athletes feels they can publicly share quite a blinkered opinion. I can't speak for any other unis but I'm pretty sure they can offer a similar run down of all the good stuff going on.

Mark: I totally despair. I can hardly tell if you're joking or not this time. Either way, really helping the Edinburgh not being a bunch of total idiots debate are we?

[Mrs H]

Well I hate to prick Edinburgh's pride but if Jess, Becks and Doug care to re-read my last post they'll see that I'm actually not having a go at them but saying that if clubs like Edinburgh are having trouble recruiting newcomers then support is needed in this area (from BOF or anywhere else it might be available - but i don't think BOF are interested) and that elite performance - no matter how outstanding doesn't guarantee recruitment - from existing or new orienteers. It would be interesting to hear what the emerging new clubs are doing.

but on the the hand don't let me stand in the way of a good defensive rant!

Mharky - that post was very funny - probably because it had ytthat slight whiff of authenitiicity about it - oh but there i go - offending some one else

[mharky]

We were the biggest club at the BUSA, do we need to recruit?

[Becks]

and even some Start Squaddies I used to come into contact with who have gone to Uni's like Edinburgh can disappear without trace when they get there. We should be hoovering up newcomers at uni - not losing established orienteers

As G says - there's more to life than orienteering. But also there's more to orienteering than elite orienteering - my point being that the university which wins BUSA may not be the Best University Club.

Sorry Mrs H, but writing that does insinuate that the club is doing something wrong,and not that the support structure isn't there. While I totally agree with that point, I think it does imply criticism thw way you wrote it, and it was fair enough of people who've done a lot of work to feel upset.

Edit* what I should have said was that I appreciate no sniping was intended! I didn't really get that across though did I?

[gg]

is there really a Rubix Cube championships?
sounds ace! idea for next years busa / bucs social?

[mharky]

http://www.speedcubing.com/events/wc2007/

[harry]

GG's last post is an example of why kids should avoid Warwick, Oxbridge or Durham at all costs.

I hear what Lard is saying. There's pressure on typical UK middle class O kids to go to a respectable Uni, get a respectable degree and then get a career. The Brits who have really got results in O have mostly put other aspirations on the backburner at some point. It's probably possible to have it all but bloody hard work. Respect to Steve Palmer, Jon Duncan, Steve Nic!!

Live the dream: Train as a plumber, work very little and charge a lot!

Gone off topic & elitist with this post.. well done to all those who encourage newcomers, it's a lot of time and effort and maybe your own training and study suffers but hopefully it feels worthwhile when you see new people enjoying it.
Their smiling faces are your reward!
Sometimes they will get wet, muddy and lost and not be smiling, ah well this sport was not for them, don't take it too hard..

[Mrs H]

what I should have said was that I appreciate no sniping was intended! ?

It's quite hard to sound non-specific when such a small sample is involved!
But I am quite interested in this area of development as i think it could be most fruitful ( a lot more than schools work that's for sure) the problem is it's got muddled up with the BUSA thread which is a different matter all together.

Doug I'd also like to point out that actually i am the only genuine West Midlands housewife on this forum - Hoco's got a paid job. I think it's this housewifely status which has just earned me an invitation to sit on some Boffy type panel to do with junior grants and stuff - i might learn a lot more about EUOC if I accept it - I'm still mulling it over.