GPS: Am I cheating?

[Gross]

now if you had a snagged O top during this 2km leg through empty forest and you knew the amount of thread used then you could calculate the distance travelled

[Paul Frost]

Rule 21.3 states; During the competition the only navigational aids that competitors may use are the map and control descriptions provided by the organiser, and a compass.

So using a GPS is against the rules.

Yes, but carrying one to record you route for analysis later is not!

[Steve]

now if you had a snagged O top during this 2km leg through empty forest and you knew the amount of thread used then you could calculate the distance travelled

And if you had a really big o-top you could snag it at the start and use the thread for route analysis later!

Hmmm, also useful for relocation...

[PeteL]

Going back to the original options posted by Simon E, there is a suggestion that the rules should be different for different levels of event. Off the top of my head I can't think of other examples where the fundemental orienteering rules change depending on the level of event (I'm sure someone will put me right on this naivity/ignorance...) and that to do so for one circumstance would only lead to more confusion than it cures; before we know it another technological advance would crop up that requires another complication.

I am reassured by those with the wit to use the technology that it does not appear to be benficial in 'traditional' foot orienteering. Perhaps this hypothesis should be tested formally in some way to clear up the confusion?

Having some experience of KIMM/LAMM, I would be more concerned about the impact in these longer duration races where one of the traditional rivalries has been between 'clever-but-nesh' orienteers and 'hard-as-nails-but-thick-as-two-short-planks' fell runners. Perhaps, some of the slightly less thick runners could get their heads around the GPS and minimise all that headless chicken stuff they do, thereby gaining an big advantage?

Another, slightly off-piste thought that follows on from a conversation at a club social about orienteers having an emit/SI implant fitted much as dogs have to to get their passports (with the new 'swipe' controls all you need to do is get close enough to the control for your implant to register). The conversation degenerated into what part of the anatomy the implant should be inserted and the image conjured up of competitors rushing to get their backsides close to the first control at a relay but that's probably too much information for most of you...) More relevantly, perhaps this device could be made to include a miniaturised GPS logger as well and thereby avoid the temptation to use them for real-time navigational purposes?

[DM]

Steve TVOC commented about reliance on technology and sat nav users, I totally agree. They are a danger on the roads and should be banned! Most people spend more time looking at the screen than the road. I was very tempted to chuck an Italian colleagues system out of the window when he was simultaneously chain smoking, having animated phone calls and steering the car to get the little arrow on the screen pointing the right way - bit like a video game with higher stakes. Enough ranting.

Pete L, implants idea is excellent and could be used to dq all those people who go out of bounds, cross uncrossable walls etc, because they can't be bothered to read final details/listen to instructions in the start box or even read the map.

[Simon E]

Going back to the original options posted by Simon E, there is a suggestion that the rules should be different for different levels of event. Off the top of my head I can't think of other examples where the fundamental orienteering rules change depending on the level of event

How about the following:

- degree of independence between organising club and controller
- use or non-use of punching starts
- mandatory use of pre-marked maps
- arrangements for agreeing changes to the rules
- ability to change start times
- provision of TD 1 and 2 maps before the start.

This is just a selection. It illustrates that we are trying to be "fairer" at events that we consider "more important".

If it was just me I'd definitely opt for number 5 on my original list: anybody could carry and use a GPS device and much good may it do them. It then becomes like a "fast" compass or a triple halogen head torch: something you pay extra for if you think it is going to help.

It might even attract new competitors: I've often thought about advertising the red course as a sort of "geocaching" event, where you get a latitude and longitude for all controls and then see how fast you can get round. Electronic punching would be a big hit with the gadget freaks, and the ordinary orienteers doing the red properly would show how navigation is really done.

And having mentioned head torches: surely everybody would agree that a head torch makes it easier to navigate at night. The current rules (BOF and IOF) prohibit them.

[Gnitworp]

And having mentioned head torches: surely everybody would agree that a head torch makes it easier to navigate at night. The current rules (BOF and IOF) prohibit them.

Interesting anomaly; maybe they should be enforced to level up the playing field

[FromTheGrassyKnoll]

If it was just me I'd definitely opt for number 5 on my original list: anybody could carry and use a GPS device and much good may it do them.

If you broaden that to any device then I think I have the killer application... not just GPS but a combination of electronic aids.

I noticed whilst competing in a Radio Orienteering event that when you were running around with a radio aerial and radio O receiver you could detect SI units! (like TV detector vans used to claim to spot people without TV licences)...

So... with an appropriate bit of tuning I have a control detector and a rough navigation device... might work.

Please just ban all these gadgets. A compass and a map is much easier to carry and much easier on the brain.

Although I do see the development angle... but is a GPS toting geek likely to turn into an Orienteer?

[Paul Frost]

... but is a GPS toting geek likely to turn into an Orienteer?

I don't consider myself a GPS geek, just an orienteer who would like to record my route for later analysis. It's as simple as that, no cheating, no aid to navigation, just an aid to memory.

[RJ]

And the sport would be so much better with the collective recollections being viewable by all!!

[mharky]

Lot's of people like to record their route for later analysis, my personal preference is remembering it and then drawing it on my map. genius.

[Ant W]

Ah, but mharky...you have the advantage of generally knowing where you have been! Some of us still need telling.

I am interested by the use of GPS at the elite level - what sort of device is used for this? Maybe in the future Emit cards can incorporate a GPS sensor that doesn't display info but allows it to be downloaded later for analysis purposes.

[grubby]

For those who have a lifestyle dedicated to excelling at any sport, not only the elite athlete, trust cannot come into the thinking. Look at athletics. Competitors know they are highly likely to be drugs tested, and yet to gain advantage, they still cheat. No, to protect the majority who are trustworthy we must have rules I'm afraid.

Pressure-based wrist Altimeters - Can't agree with Fatboy. They are a very useful tool but need skill and 'good husbandry' to be effective. Great on MM's.
GPS altimeters - They are very unreliable because of the way they triangulate at a very shallow angle. Their Positional Fix facility, now that 'Selective Availability' (built in error) has been switched off is very accurate. As they can be used to pin-point exactly where you are on a KIMM or LAMM type map with Grid coordinates on, they are rightly banned.

If you like GPS navigation challenges, try 'Geocaching'

[mharky]

Maybe in the future Emit cards can incorporate a GPS sensor that doesn't display info but allows it to be downloaded later for analysis purposes.

now that is a good idea

[tim sleepless]

Co-incidentally s0meone has just sent me the following piece of information

Favourite Bit Of Kit: The spirit level attachment to my Silva 6 Spectra compass. Great for accurate contouring.

quote]


Goodness -- is that meant to be a design feature... I just thought was an annoying air bubble....