JWOC 2016
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Re: JWOC 2016
...although no amount of physiology testing is going to help if what you really need is 6 months intensive training in Norway.
Orienteering - its no walk in the park
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Re: JWOC 2016
housewife wrote:Of the £200k budget, how much was spent on physiology/sports medicine / physiology / physiologists / the expenses of physiologists (other than yourself and Jackie) attending squad weekends? Would this money have covered the JWOC contributions?
In the 2015/16 programme, the only camp where any time was devoted to 'physiology/sports medicine' was the initial planning weekend in October, and here the only individual contributing under this heading was Kim Baxter, who was there in her physiotherapy role and this was part of her normal employment allocation with BO. Therefore, the additional money spent on this aspect at squad weekends in this year was precisely £0.
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Strider - light green
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Re: JWOC 2016
No sports testing this year then either? That is a relief! So much money has been frittered away over the past few years.
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Re: JWOC 2016
And obviously I tried the proscribed training that arose from the sports testing - for as long as it took to realise the whole thing was as believable as the emperors new clothes, and I went back to proper training again.
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Re: JWOC 2016
Almost as interesting as the details (thanks Paul) is that I now know who strider is...another one to add to the puzzle of who's who
(fervently hoping I'm not the only one who gets excited when they find out who is behind the pseudonyms, although in this case the reveal was a little obvious)
(fervently hoping I'm not the only one who gets excited when they find out who is behind the pseudonyms, although in this case the reveal was a little obvious)
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Re: JWOC 2016
Duncan wrote:housewife wrote:I am interest as a former elite athlete, who has been sports tested numerous times with no obvious benefit whatsoever.
Presumably you knew that just being tested wouldn't result in an improvement?! It's not the testing it's what you do with the results / data to shape your future training.
And I thought sports testing was just an exercise in willy waving (who has the biggest VO2max, who has the lowest fat content, who has the best running economy etc)
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Re: JWOC 2016
the only individual contributing under this heading was Kim Baxter,
housewife wrote:... I tried the proscribed training that arose from the sports testing -
So let me get this straight. Kim did the testing, proscribed training for the squad , and so went on to become British Elite Champion while everyone else was willy-waving
Nice work if you can get it
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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Re: JWOC 2016
housewife wrote:No sports testing this year then either? That is a relief! So much money has been frittered away over the past few years.
Ah, no, I misunderstood your original question. Fitness testing has been undertaken by several of the squad this year, as in the past, but as a percentage of our overall budget, it's very small indeed.
From a perspective of philosophy, I would disagree that it's a waste of time nor do I see it as frittering away money - as Duncan said, it's not the testing per se, it's what you do with the data and we find this invaluable in informing the athlete's training programmes and helping to shape what they do. In particular, the input and advice that we can give to the younger/newer athletes to the squad, on the back of this testing, helps to make significant gains to their athletic development.
This is probably something we're going to have to disagree on, in terms of it's value...
Last edited by Strider on Sun Jun 05, 2016 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: JWOC 2016
We will absolutely have to disagree. As Kim's performance at brown Clee shows, you can achieve great things with a half marathon training program you download from the Internet. I got to woc in 2011 not for training for woc, but training to beat a rival in the national XC. Got a training program from a running book, stuck to it for three months, and accidentally win 3 of the 6 woc selection races to make woc. Getting physically for for orienteering by yourself is not tricky. Are we sure that the juniors are wringing all they can do out of basic training before spending the hundreds, if not thousands per athlete that sports testing costs? Any gains from sports testing are marginal. It's the technical aspects of the sport that cannot be taught from a book, and are very hard to work at when you are away from an organised group environment.
I would like to support junior development, but cannot support the junior squad in its current form. I will continue to donate to the British Orienteering Athlete Support Fund instead, which is independant of british orienteering and run by orienteers for orienteers, concentrating on giving money to help aspiring athletes reach their goals.
I would like to support junior development, but cannot support the junior squad in its current form. I will continue to donate to the British Orienteering Athlete Support Fund instead, which is independant of british orienteering and run by orienteers for orienteers, concentrating on giving money to help aspiring athletes reach their goals.
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Re: JWOC 2016
housewife wrote:Are we sure that the juniors are wringing all they can do out of basic training before spending the hundreds, if not thousands per athlete that sports testing costs?
Not sure where you've got these figures from, but I can assure you that we don't spend anywhere near this amount on fitness testing.
housewife wrote: the technical aspects of the sport that cannot be taught from a book, and are very hard to work at when you are away from an organised group environment.
I absolutely agree with you regarding this and it is something that the team are very focussed on, which is why the vast majority of our camp time this year has been devoted to technical and tactical development of the athletes' orienteering skills, in some of the premier orienteering areas in the UK. This has been the absolute bedrock of our delivery.
housewife wrote: I would like to support junior development, but cannot support the junior squad in its current form.
As mentioned in previous posts, I would be happy to share our programme with you, to try to put your mind at ease, and convince you that what we're doing is not hugely distant from your philosophy and that we are fully committed to making these athletes the best orienteers they can be!
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Re: JWOC 2016
Figures from proposals made to me by british orienteering in the past few years. It's good that you think the talent development program is going in the right way. I disagree. While money is spent on sports testing, and athletes are asked to contribute £1,200 to attend JWOC, in my opinion things are going badly wrong.
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Re: JWOC 2016
housewife wrote:contribute £1,200 to attend JWOC, in my opinion things are going badly wrong.
Yes, but...
The reality is that many of these athletes will pay very little, if anything, towards the £1200.
The perverse reality is that the more outrageous the things BO doesn't pay for, the easier it is for athletes to tap into other funding to get them funded. Getting external funding to go to JWOC is a lot easier than getting funded for a training camp. Is £1200 too much to ask? We'll know it is when someone refuses to go, up until then, the middle class parents and clubmates of the JWOCers will just have to cover the cost of their kids hobby.
WOC2024 Edinburgh
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
Test races at SprintScotland (Alloa/Falkirk) and Euromeeting (near Stirling).
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graeme - god
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Re: JWOC 2016
Tend to agree with housewife here
While sports science and support are great... they are the cherry on top. Technical orienteering has to be there first & foremost. Running ability and psychology come further down the list.
Different story at elite level where it's maybe a third each.... and at very highest level the mind probably wins.
But for the youngsters.... running controls in technical terrain
Also seems strange that funding for talent development to some extent relies on the performance at JWOC. That can easily lead to JWOC becoming a target in it's own right rather than as a stepping stone onto elite orienteering...... particularly if the staffs wages rely on that performance
While sports science and support are great... they are the cherry on top. Technical orienteering has to be there first & foremost. Running ability and psychology come further down the list.
Different story at elite level where it's maybe a third each.... and at very highest level the mind probably wins.
But for the youngsters.... running controls in technical terrain
Also seems strange that funding for talent development to some extent relies on the performance at JWOC. That can easily lead to JWOC becoming a target in it's own right rather than as a stepping stone onto elite orienteering...... particularly if the staffs wages rely on that performance
Go orienteering in Lithuania......... best in the world:)
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Re: JWOC 2016
Wow Gross. You have just written a post that you really believe in - no irony
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Re: JWOC 2016
I pledged some money for this, but having just revisited the Crowdfunder site it looks like we might fall short of the target - £1000 raised out of a target of £6000 with one week to go.
I will happily send my money anyway if somebody tells me where to send it.
I will happily send my money anyway if somebody tells me where to send it.
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