Yep, almost as dangerous as that similarly visible commentary van. And as for all those nasty rocks and trees on the course, well....
Great event both days, thanks very much NEOA.
Tough varied terrain made for worthy elite champions - congratulations to GG and Claire on their long-awaited maiden British Long titles.
British Long / Relay Champs 2014
Moderators: [nope] cartel, team nopesport
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
Why did I do that...
- Jon X
- green
- Posts: 315
- Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:20 pm
- Location: should be out training
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
I enjoyed both fantastically contrasting races. I do have major reservations about the interpretation of mapping rock features according to their significance in the area.
Not mapping 2m high rock pillars with maybe 5m diameter (not just one that the mappers might have missed, but clearly a conscious decision as there were so many,) from which no other rock can be seen simply because if you go another 50+ metres there are truly gigantic things seems utterly bizzare, particularly when up until that point one had not seen a single rock on the course. In my view rocks that size should only be not mapped where they are so closely surrounded by massive rocks that they cannot be mapped in any useful way. Mount Kooyura in Australia has far bigger rock spread much more thickly than Callaly but boy was it well mapped.
in summary, it's fair enough to not map 2m boulders where all that you can see around are massively bigger, but not where there are no other rocks in sight.
I am certain that I coped badly with what i found, but I also don't really know what I'd do differently if I met a similar situation again.
However for the purposes of this thread I loved the event and the course, and was basically incompetent.
Not mapping 2m high rock pillars with maybe 5m diameter (not just one that the mappers might have missed, but clearly a conscious decision as there were so many,) from which no other rock can be seen simply because if you go another 50+ metres there are truly gigantic things seems utterly bizzare, particularly when up until that point one had not seen a single rock on the course. In my view rocks that size should only be not mapped where they are so closely surrounded by massive rocks that they cannot be mapped in any useful way. Mount Kooyura in Australia has far bigger rock spread much more thickly than Callaly but boy was it well mapped.
in summary, it's fair enough to not map 2m boulders where all that you can see around are massively bigger, but not where there are no other rocks in sight.
I am certain that I coped badly with what i found, but I also don't really know what I'd do differently if I met a similar situation again.
However for the purposes of this thread I loved the event and the course, and was basically incompetent.
- EddieH
- god
- Posts: 2513
- Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:04 pm
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
EddieH wrote:particularly when up until that point one had not seen a single rock on the course.
I was going to stay out of this, but since you raised it... After a couple of small (1m) rock feature controls M50 came across this unmapped "biggest-yet" feature on the way to the misplaced 208. Cue most of the field messing up. By contrast, most of the 21s had already seen the big stuff, and coped much better with the same leg.
One of my favourite planning methods is to paint a picture of how the area works in the early legs, then hit you with a sudden change of style. Now I'm wondering if that's fair?
I predict all the major trophies will go to Scots and Scottish clubs.
Mens Individual GG - FVO (Scottish champion, Scottish club)
Women's Individual housewife - ESOC (Scottish champion, Scottish club)
Men's Relay - INT (Scottish club)
Women's Relay - EUOC (Scottish club)
Coconut - graeme (English expatriate)
Coming soon from [url=https:masterplanadventure.weebly.com/]Masterplan Adventure[/url]
Christmas Cup (Loch Ard)
Coasts and Islands (Orkney/Shetland)
SprintScotland (Post 6-day)
Christmas Cup (Loch Ard)
Coasts and Islands (Orkney/Shetland)
SprintScotland (Post 6-day)
-
graeme - god
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:04 pm
- Location: struggling with an pɹɐɔ ʇıɯǝ
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
graeme wrote:most of the 21s ... coped much better with the same leg.
-
rocky - [nope] cartel
- Posts: 2747
- Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:28 pm
- Location: SW
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
"Misplaced" 208.
No I don't think it was. I spent long enough on the hill to be able to plot several boulders that i believe should have been mapped, but in the end I got it because I realised what the green blob was and I then saw it just as my map interpretation said it would be. I think the feature might be mapped a fraction too high as not only did it seem a hell of a long way up, but when attacking from the close by cliff nose I still went to me original rock feature - however I am certain that the control was on the feature that the mapper meant.
No I don't think it was. I spent long enough on the hill to be able to plot several boulders that i believe should have been mapped, but in the end I got it because I realised what the green blob was and I then saw it just as my map interpretation said it would be. I think the feature might be mapped a fraction too high as not only did it seem a hell of a long way up, but when attacking from the close by cliff nose I still went to me original rock feature - however I am certain that the control was on the feature that the mapper meant.
- EddieH
- god
- Posts: 2513
- Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:04 pm
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
NeilC wrote:Tatty wrote: or those who set the rules.
Tatty, could you provide some suggestions as to what the rules should say. Currently they say:
2.7.3 Applying the course length ratios – points to watch out for:
M21 (or Black) probably uses the whole area. The shorter courses use
only part of it, and this might be more or less runnable, or steeper/flatter,
than the average
rough terrain has a greater effect on the running speed of younger and
older competitors than of M21s
older competitors are significantly affected by steep terrain, particularly
downhill
older competitors find dense tree growth more of an obstacle –
suppleness decreases with age
There is no magic formula for allowing for these variables.
The last point, "no magic formula", says it all. Take course 16 the longest course starting from the Blue Start, the course had a similar distance to course 1 around the slow going steep slopes near the Blue Start, where as course 17 the longest course from the Red Start ran only on the east side of the map. So weighting the proportion of the courses on the slowest parts of the area might have given different course lengths for courses 15 (blue) and 16 (blue) compared to say 17 (red) and 18 (red).
I shudder when I recall a badge event I planned as an M35 on a hilly technical area last used for a BOC. The M21s had a winning time closer to a championship event and there were no complaints from them. However, I did in retrospect get carried away as I was keen for most of the courses to have the technical challenge of a couple of legs going diagonally down the steep slope near the finish, only to take them back up to the finish - it didn't go down too well with some of the oldies.
One of the best aspects of the BOC is it moves around the regions, favouring different orienteers from year to year. I'd rather the planner gave me the full physical and technical challenges, than backing off too much and neutering many of the courses, so a thumbs up from me to the BOC planner.
- maprun
- diehard
- Posts: 687
- Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:37 am
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
208 was exactly where i thought it would be and I went directly there (albeit at walking pace up the hill), getting the fastest split on my course in the process - however as it was just about the only control on the course that I hit cleanly i'm fairly sure it was misplaced my other fastest split was on the run-in, which was more down to relief at finally being able to run instead of stumbling about hopelessly - coincidentally I don't think the run-in or finish were mapped correctly either
That aside I thought it was an excellent, testing, championship course for my age group - i know can't run in that crap so didn't have great expectations and was happy to pootle about - I'm not sure that i'll fancy something like course 16 (M70/W55) in 20 years time.
Not quite sure what the solution is - I think the Swedes have limits on physical difficulty of terrain for older classes but they have more areas to choose from - but it did remind me that a couple of years ago when venues were being sought for WOC 2015 one fantastic, unmapped, almost pathless, 400ha area was rejected as "too rough for elites" -it is, to be fair, a bit rougher than Callaly but not that much...
That aside I thought it was an excellent, testing, championship course for my age group - i know can't run in that crap so didn't have great expectations and was happy to pootle about - I'm not sure that i'll fancy something like course 16 (M70/W55) in 20 years time.
Not quite sure what the solution is - I think the Swedes have limits on physical difficulty of terrain for older classes but they have more areas to choose from - but it did remind me that a couple of years ago when venues were being sought for WOC 2015 one fantastic, unmapped, almost pathless, 400ha area was rejected as "too rough for elites" -it is, to be fair, a bit rougher than Callaly but not that much...
-
greywolf - addict
- Posts: 1416
- Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:45 pm
- Location: far far away
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
mrmoosehead wrote:Oh, and I thought the relay area was great fun.
As I was on my way to the relay holding pen I heard the commentator say 'and now there's a flurry of ladies punching the spectators'.
- usuallylast
- red
- Posts: 158
- Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:17 pm
- Location: North Cumbria
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
greywolf wrote: "too rough for elites"
...that's enough about Livingston...
Coming soon from [url=https:masterplanadventure.weebly.com/]Masterplan Adventure[/url]
Christmas Cup (Loch Ard)
Coasts and Islands (Orkney/Shetland)
SprintScotland (Post 6-day)
Christmas Cup (Loch Ard)
Coasts and Islands (Orkney/Shetland)
SprintScotland (Post 6-day)
-
graeme - god
- Posts: 4734
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:04 pm
- Location: struggling with an pɹɐɔ ʇıɯǝ
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
graeme wrote:greywolf wrote: "too rough for elites"
...that's enough about Livingston...
I thought that comment was about Glasgow - as the "banter" at control 1 at the recent SOUL proves.
- Big Jon
- guru
- Posts: 1897
- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:59 am
- Location: Dess
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
I may be slightly biased in this, but is there a reason that the adhoc relay teams aren't listed on the boc2014 front page relay results?
Are they considered an oddity?
Are they considered an oddity?
MrMoosehead
Nothing I say is important in the grand scheme of things
Nothing I say is important in the grand scheme of things
-
mrmoosehead - off string
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:03 am
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
I wouldn't call adhoc teams an "oddity" as such. But they are not British Championship classes, given you can have whoever you like in the team, any club, any country even, and there aren't any prizes for them.
- Duncan
- light green
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:29 pm
- Location: Kendal
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
There's a trophy for mixed adhoc. It's sitting on the sideboard.
MrMoosehead
Nothing I say is important in the grand scheme of things
Nothing I say is important in the grand scheme of things
-
mrmoosehead - off string
- Posts: 47
- Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:03 am
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
Was anyone else puzzled hearing a whistle being blown on Saturday? Frustratingly it was only going about once every minute so was difficult to locate which direction it was coming from. It has taken me several days to realise and check on RG that it was one of the other starts. Surely that should be a no-no. Might be OK if there is only one start and everyone is aware that the whistle is being used there but when there are other starts whose location is unknown to competitors it could make people ignore genuine calls for help.
- MJG
- white
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:25 am
Re: British Long / Relay Champs 2014
How about a thought for those who completed a Championship Course, and received no BOF points...
- Mr D
- white
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:21 am
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests