Sheffield City Race 24 Nov 12

[nooomember]

So they dont want to be called 'cheaters', but can admit they broke the rules which is the important point. If breaking the rules doesnt matter, then lets not have any.

[andypat]

Perhaps you could be more specific about which rule has been broken here noomember, since you are so keen to define these competitors as cheaters?

[awk]

Perhaps you could be more specific about which rule has been broken here noomember, since you are so keen to define these competitors as cheaters?

nooomember is referring to those not using the designated underpasses at Sheffield, where the rules are pretty clear.

But what nooomember has missed is that pretty much everybody I spoke to at Sheffield who had crossed the road rather than gone under it, was totally open about it. Apart from Strider, they didn't declare themselves DQ simply because everybody was aware that so many others had done it, that it would have wrecked the enjoyment of the event, and that nobody had done it with any intent. (All credit to Strider having said that).

Yes, strictly speaking, over 50% of the field should have been DQed. I'm glad it didn't happen. What we do need to do is learn the lesson from it, as discussed above, and move on.

So they dont want to be called 'cheaters',

I don't think anybody who made this mistake has expressed a preference one way or another, certainly not here. It's not about what people want to be called, but about the appropriate use of a word fraught with judgemental undertones.

[High Peak]

Oh dear. Just tuned in to this discussion to discover that I will have to dq myself for crossing the road (twice!) instead of using the underpass between #5 - #6 and #7 - #8 on Course 3 on Saturday. Even worse, I think I (inadvertently!) followed another competitor across the road.
I'll get in touch with the results team.

[andypat]

Perhaps you could be more specific about which rule has been broken here noomember, since you are so keen to define these competitors as cheaters?

nooomember is referring to those not using the designated underpasses at Sheffield, where the rules are pretty clear.

Yeah I knew that - point I was making is that noomember was being a bit broad with his cheating accusations and i thought it worth asking exactly what he was implying. I think you and I have simialr views on that...

PS anyone got a screenshot of teh offending underpass since its not up on RG yet cheers

[Spookster]

PS anyone got a screenshot of teh offending underpass since its not up on RG yet cheers

Here's a blown-up map extract. I've added a red rectangle to show the location of the pedestrian crossing that some people mistakenly used.

sheffield-underpass.JPG (27.18 KiB) Viewed 6979 times

[awk]

That was the one used on the MSV course Spookster. The one I watched most people use on courses 1 and 2 was just to the south of the northern underpass, crossing from opposite the corner of the building on the east side of the road to the large blank yellow area on the west side (the fence is inaccurate - ther was a gap in it).

[Spookster]

Ah, OK, in which case you mean the middle one on this map extract, and in fact there is another crossing just north of the northern underpass.

sheffield-underpass.JPG (27.1 KiB) Viewed 6967 times

[awk]

Ah, OK, in which case you mean the middle one on this map extract,

That's the one!

[nooomember]

So if 50 % of competitors break rules, are you saying thats ok then, ignore it and carry on?
The map extract above clearly show where the underpasses are and the crossings, so assuming you knew where you were you would know you were about to cross the ,hatched, road.

[graeme]

Sometimes people make mistakes, but we don't have to denigrate them for it.

thats

missing apostrophe

ok

capitalisation error

you knew where you were you would know you were

the ,hatched, road.

spacing error

[AndyC]

I wasn't there so I'm working entirely from the map extract but I'm understanding why people may have crossed illegally as I can't quite understand the access to the underpass from the West - is it possible to enter it from parallel with the road or (as I suspect) do you have to enter from the route to the W?

[SAL]

Coming rather late to this as we've had no Internet access - I also did exactly as awk and Wendles described, then realised and reported myself before the chase, expecting to be disqualified. I had no intention of cheating, but was confused about what was legal, and it was indeed difficult to understand the access to the underpass. I assumed that crossing the road had saved time, although I did cross with a green man. I went back afterwards and gently jogged the leg along the legal route - was surprised to find that even at this slow rate it only took 1 second longer than my time for the leg. (This was leg #4 to #5 on course 4.)
I'd never run in Sheffield before - thoroughly enjoyed the event, and hope to return sometime.

[graeme]

Unfortunately, the map is completely ambiguous.
The crossing point symbol itself does not say what level is "allowed to cross". Crossing either above or below the road would require running through the pink line of the symbol (which is allowed). Once you've chosen the ISSOM-legal "above" route and found no tapes (which aren't required), I think it is reasonable to detour to the pedestrian crossing.
To make it clearer and unambiguous, I would follow ISSOM and mark the underpass in grey (it is the "main running level" - indeed the only running level) and put the road OOB.

Of course, that's easy to say with hindsight. But it's surely right not to disqualify people who failed to notice midrace that the mapping team had made an honest mistake*. As usually happens, the organisers have made a fair and sensible decision.


* or 'were ISSOM-cheaters who deserve to have their event voided' if you take the fundamentalist viewpoint.

[Spookster]

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