Elite course winning times

[Scott]

Too limited 95+ winning time Longs in the UK (they are rare)

Which isn't really surprising when the guidelines for M21E at BOC/JK/the Area Champs specify an 85-95min winning time. Perhaps adjusting the ratios so this becomes 90-100min (in line with the IOF) would be a start?

And I quite like Graeme's idea of using a more populous class (M45 or similar) as the "base" for the ratios.

[EriOL]

I'm sending my training campers to Surebridge mountain when they wake up today. I can confirm that it is super tough. Thierry re-ran it a couple of years ago, can't quite remember what time he did.

I don't think Thierry re-ran the classic at race speed, just the short distance. More information here: http://orienteeringmaps.net/blog/2010/0 ... -mountain/

[Dave]

Perhaps more depressing is there have only ever been 3 other results under 100 mins. Which suggests that we need to get tougher on our Longs if we want to do better and prepare our lads for top results. Scotts result last year was the first sub 100 min performance for 9 years!

Should sub 100min performances really be what we are quantifying doing well as though? no two WOCs are the same and sometimes (although rarely) sub 100 just isn't doable - by anyone: http://www.woc2008.cz/en/results-long-f ... html#LongF

[Scott]

It's not particularly good as an overall measure of WOC success, but in the context of this thread "Britain's top elite men rarely take less than 100min in the WOC Long Final" vs "Britain's top elite men rarely take more than 90min for any M21E long race in the UK" is a useful comparison.

[Gross]

Some looooong looking times at the Scottish yesterday....

[greywolf]

Some looooong looking times at the Scottish yesterday....

Wasn't there (phew) so can only speculate that recent windblow in some bits of the area might have slowed some of the longer courses significantly. Noticeable that some of the shorter courses were still pretty quick, Jo Shepherd did 44.05 for 5k/170m & Hazel Dean 47.41 for 5.2k/170, which compare favourably (in mins/km) with most of the men's courses.
Course 9 (M55/M60/M16) looks particularly brutal - no-one under 86 mins for 7.5km/255m

[andypat]

It was hands and knees stuff at times for me! Then a DNF after 2 hours as I wasnt going to make the course closing time! Any Elites think it was too short?

[andy]

Any Elites think it was too short?

No.

That's by far the longest and most physically difficult 21E course I've ever done. ran out of energy about 2/3 of the way round but was too stubborn to stop not a good day out.

[andypat]

On the Auchingarrich side the windblow didnt really affect me much. I think some of the light green has got a bit darker since the mapping. No sure that hands and knees stuff is really adequately described as "difficult to run"?

[EddieH]

I haven't checked course length ratios, but I think that the elite course length looks fine looking at the times and particularly so if you allow for unanticipated storm damage, (and more than usual spring growth).

Personally I wish we had courses like that every championship. The problem is of course that people don't know what to expect and that is a shock for some. Whereas the British a few years ago in the SE was planned to the correct ratios, but my course was won in the low 50s if I remember correctly.

Mind you I have been running big races very poorly all year, Saturday being no exception, and if you knock about 10 minutes off my time it would not look so extreme.

Perhaps it's all part of the rich variety of our sport. I loved that very short outing at the British in the SE, and I loved it on Saturday - I'd have been happy for both of them to have gone on for longer

[graeme]

Nationale Savoie 2011 21E Long course British results

Women
1 ELDER Rachael IMP023 GBR Team GBR 1:34:12
2 ORR Hollie IMP023 GBR Team GBR 1:36:49
3 WARD Claire IMP023 GBR Team GBR 1:43:38
4 ARCHER Pippa IMP023 GBR Team GBR 2:22:19

Men
1 TULLIE Douglas IMP023 GBR Team GBR 2:18:05

Is that too long?

[awk]

Then a DNF after 2 hours as I wasnt going to make the course closing time!

Probably just as well you did, as I understand the finish was taken in rather earlier than the advertised closing time.

[Jon X]

I understand the finish was taken in rather earlier than the advertised closing time.

Not sure where that comes from and possibly does the helpers a disservice - it was still there at 5.30pm which I think was course closing?

[andypat]

I reckon I'd have been about 5.45 given a decent run in the northern loop - which is definitely not a given

[awk]

Not sure where that comes from and possibly does the helpers a disservice - it was still there at 5.30pm which I think was course closing?

From one or two reports from those at York today. However, I should, of course, not simply report rumour without checking. Looking at results and start times, the individual concerned arrived at the finish at 5.33, 3 minutes after the courses closed.